TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden; believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #35

[OldSteve]

A couple of other ways this case might be solved:
If whomever is giving an alibi rescinds it.
If someone in jail overhears something.
If a girlfriend of the perp finds something out and comes forward.
If out-of-the-blue someone remembers something, or a tip that was
phoned in but had gotten lost or glossed over is acted upon.

 

[Hatfield]

A couple of other ways this case might be solved:
If whomever is giving an alibi rescinds it.
If someone in jail overhears something.
If a girlfriend of the perp finds something out and comes forward.
If out-of-the-blue someone remembers something, or a tip that was
phoned in but had gotten lost or glossed over is acted upon.

Thanks. I knew there had to be more than 3 ways, but could not think of any. :rocker:

I like this one = If a girlfriend of the perp finds something out and comes forward.

Since it looks like it will be very hard to ever find out where Holly was placed, and since it looks like anyone that knows anything is staying tight lipped, then this idea could be what eventually solves this case.

That is the one thing that the people "in the know" have not counted on. People's relationships and dynamics change over time. So, over time, if somone is being protected, and that someone ends up marrying or even moving away, it may be enough of a change to make the people "in the know" realize they should not keep protecting them. Or the new girlfriend finds something out, and notifies LE. Once the people "in the know" realize the perp's life is going on, they may realize they are letting someone get away with something that they really should be punished for.
Why keep protecting someone when it only causes anguish for the people that are doing the protecting. The perp gets to go on living a care free life, while the protectors live in anguish. That reality may set in soon, if it has not already begun.

 

[reedus23]

Very good points.

IMO you're right it's so strange of their reactions.

Alot of guys I know would react somewhat calmly like the brother did.

Women, or the Mom, will react with more urgency, stress to a situation like this.

Maybe the Mom knew or heard something more than the brother did.

She definitely did. She knew the bf was at grandma's so, whereas CB might naturally assume it was the bf with Holly, mom knew it couldn't be and if she knows it can't be, then who was it? That's the reason for the alarms by mom and not brother. Add to that mom knew about the screams and CB did not.

 

[reedus23]

Now, we have DS and his hunting partner at the crack of dawn facing down a relative of Karen's on grandma's property. (Karen stated this call took place before dawn)The epic turkey drama is long over by the 7:00 window when KB and CB are discussing the camouflage man outside with Holly. I think the refusal to release the redacted transcript of the times of the calls that morning has been a disservice to CB. We simply do not have the cell phone times nailed down in Mr. Notak or Smooth Operators timelines to discredit CB. MOO

Many discussions have thrashed through this timeline. I want to credit the posters who since day1 have been sleuthing this tragedy. I will provide a link for anyone who wants to read just one of these:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178917&page=37

I don't know if I have seen a time for when DS and the Bobo relative were trying to straighten out the hunting issues on grandma's property. What I have seen is that the flurry of phone calls trying to straighten out this issue happened around 7:30. I do agree. I think LE has done CB a disservice by many of their actions/statements.

 

[Hatfield]

She definitely did. She knew the bf was at grandma's so, whereas CB might naturally assume it was the bf with Holly, mom knew it couldn't be and if she knows it can't be, then who was it? That's the reason for the alarms by mom and not brother. Add to that mom knew about the screams and CB did not.

JMO
It was much more than that though. She actually appeared to know she was already kidnapped right away.

She started calling everyone they knew to come help search for her, freaked out at the school, told Clint to get a gun, called 911, etc. All these things based only on somone hearing a scream and knowing it was someone else beside Drew??? It could have been another friend in a simple argument with her and wanting to talk with her, so they walked in the woods to talk for all they knew.
Which is why I don't think we were provided an accurate understanding of exactly what was told to who and when.

Something she knew or was told on the calls made her know it was a kidnapping and life or death situation. Whether it was some prior things that happened in Holly's life shortly before the events of that day OR whether it was based on things said during the phone calls, something made her realize it right away that a kidnapping had occurred.

 

[dodie20]

JMO
It was much more than that though. She actually appeared to know she was already kidnapped right away.

She started calling everyone they knew to come help search for her, freaked out at the school, told Clint to get a gun, called 911, etc. All these things based only on somone hearing a scream and knowing it was someone else beside Drew??? It could have been another friend in a simple argument with her and wanting to talk with her, so they walked in the woods to talk for all they knew.
Which is why I don't think we were provided an accurate understanding of exactly what was told to who and when.

Something she knew or was told on the calls made her know it was a kidnapping and life or death situation. Whether it was some prior things that happened in Holly's life shortly before the events of that day OR whether it was based on things said during the phone calls, something made her realize it right away that a kidnapping had occurred.

I agree, we're missing some important information. I read that the brother saw 2 silhouettes and heard voices. Has he ever said what words he might have heard? Did the neighbor who reported the scream, hear anything else? raised voices or words? Was it just 1 loud scream? Also, there's a big difference between a scream from terror and a scream from pain, for instance. I understand that LE keeps certain details to themselves, so as to not tip their hand to the perp. Is that what's going on here? Maybe, but it sure leaves a lot of gaping holes in the case.

 

[Hatfield]

I agree, we're missing some important information. I read that the brother saw 2 silhouettes and heard voices. Has he ever said what words he might have heard? Did the neighbor who reported the scream, hear anything else? raised voices or words? Was it just 1 loud scream? Also, there's a big difference between a scream from terror and a scream from pain, for instance. I understand that LE keeps certain details to themselves, so as to not tip their hand to the perp. Is that what's going on here? Maybe, but it sure leaves a lot of gaping holes in the case.

All good questions.

From all that I have read and the interviews I have viewed, the brother never provided any specifics on any exact words he overheard. I think somewhere I saw it referenced that he heard "talking or arguing", but nothing specific.

Same with neighbor because there is even less info about the neighbor's son and his Mom and what they actually heard. I saw it in one article where it was listed as "screamS" (plural), and you are so right that if the scream or screams were loud, lengthy, blood-curdling, etc., that could answer the question as to why the Mom knew something terrible had happened. If the neighbor described it as a 10 minute blood-curdling screaming at the top of your lungs type of thing, then that alone would be enough for me to call everybody and anybody to come help. I would practically faint on the floor too if it was described that way to me.

I understand LE keeping some things close to the vest, but they have went way too far IMO here because they have provided nothing. Absolutely nothing to help find her. That is really sad. Surely, they could release some informtion that may help in some way, and not jeapordize anything. Many other LE departments do, so why cant they. It doesnt make any sense. Especially when so much time has gone by. They need to do something to help.

 

[Whisperer]

I was a witness to a crime and was asked by police to write my statement down at the scene of the crime. Thought that was unusual, but this was in the state of Florida.

I guess everyone is going to have their personal story. This was a chaotic scene going on. Clint was absolutely no help at all. He didn't hear her scream. I maintain that to solve the crime on msg. boards, it would behoove the sleuthers to eliminate his account.

IMO, they put him in the car because he was no help at all and kept him busy doing something. I find it highly unusual in this type of scene to remove a family member and place him in the car writing a report. If I were the officer I would be drilling him not telling him to write. This was a witness, not a victim to a crime. I have been a witness and my report was not taken the day of the crime. Interviews, yes. Investigative reports, later.

It would be helpful to see the responding officers reports, the 911s, etc. The police and the TBI do not want the public's help. The members in the community are also not talking and probably have been suggested not to talk. AFAIK, they never did and they never asked the community or public for any help. On the contrary, one who stepped out on his own and tried to investigate was harassed and his home ransacked and he lived out of state.

That was the only response/action taken in this case...pretty aggressive, imo. This pretty much sealed the deal for anyone to dare overstep their bounds and ask questions around town or the internet. The family, LE and the TBI are not talking.

 

[Whisperer]

IMO, this is one case that could have gathered national attention almost to the level of Natalie Holloway. It was not pursued by anyone close to Holly. It is not only the sheriff's dept that are keeping this quiet. My question is, "why"?

 

[dodie20]

I guess everyone is going to have their personal story. This was a chaotic scene going on. Clint was absolutely no help at all. He didn't hear her scream.

IMO, they put him in the car because he was no help at all and kept him busy doing something. I find it highly unusual in this type of scene to remove a family member and place him in the car writing a report. If I were the officer I would be drilling him not telling him to write. This was a witness, not a victim to a crime. I have been a witness and my report was not taken the day of the crime. Interviews, yes. Investigative reports, later.

It would be helpful to see the responding officers reports, the 911s, etc. The police and the TBI do not want the public's help. AFAIK, they never did and they never asked. This fact alone eliminates a stranger according to my experience.

I read that the brother got a gun before going outside, so this might have been why the cops wanted him in the car, and then again maybe not. Did the brother ever say if he thought Holly and the man were aware of him being in the house and awake? When they were walking and heard her phone ring, and saw who was calling, it seems like he would have known the jig was up, that the brother was up and had seen them, but no, they just ignored the phone. so weird.

 

[Hatfield]

.....(SNIPPED).....The family, LE and the TBI are not talking.

I totally agree. I have never seen a case like this where even LE clams up totally.

I have to give some credit to the family members for eventually providing some information, but what has been so bothersome is how it took so long for any information to come out. In the early crtiical days, there was nothing at all of any substance.

There was a certain early Channel 5 news report that was beyond ridiculous. Even the news lady became frustrated as she asked for any info to help find her, and they would not answer anything at all. It was sad, and is why it almost seems like they may already know what happened, and just cant say anything.

We all remember the JVM interview where a person literally walks off the interview as specifics were trying to be asked about.

Then finally we hear of a "pink purse" that may have been with her. Why wait so long for this kind of information to be stated. It just doesnt make any sense. If you have a loved one missing, you would want to provide all info to help find her. There is no way I would hold back anything if it was something that could help find her. Even if LE was saying not to say anything, I would never listen to that instruction if I had info that would help find her. Especilally after so long has gone by.

 

[Xavier]

I'll try to answer some of your questions from recollection.

1) We don't know if they were texting but according to Karen there were a flurry of phone calls amongst the 3 of them. Karen, Holly and bf.

2) There was a misunderstanding regarding hunting on grandma's property. When bf and his dad arrived, the person (we do not know who this person is) didn't recognize bf and that is when bf called Holly.

3) The timeline was posted on this thread by SmoothOperator. This is the way I understood the events to happen.

Holly leaves the house to go to her car parked in the carport.
Suspect either grabs her as she was walking to the carport or confronts her in the carport.
At some point Holly screams. Clint does not hear the scream but a neighbour does.
Neighbour tells his mom he heard a scream coming from the Bobo home and tells his mom to go check.
Neighbour's mom calls Karen at the school she works. Secretary takes the call and alerts Karen.
I'm guessing and assuming at about this time is when the dog barks and awakens Clint who is unaware of what is going on outside. This is when he looks out and sees Holly with the suspect who he assumes was her bf so he wasn't concerned.
He thought the bf had gone hunting and brought a turkey to show Holly.
At about this time is when I believe Karen calls him to ask what is going on and relays the message she had gotten from the neighbour regarding the scream. Clint tells Karen that Holly is in the carport with Drew. Karen is panicked and tells him it is not Drew. Karen knew it couldn't be Drew because Drew was supposed to be on grandma's property and not anywhere close to the Bobo home. Karen tells Clint to get a gun and go after suspect. This is about the time the neighbour shows up and by that time Holly gone never to be seen again.

As for the 911 calls. I believe Karen, the neighbour and Clint made calls.

We were not told if there was a trail of blood. We were told there was a puddle/pool/specks (all three were used to describe the blood) found in the carport that belonged to Holly.

Great job detaling this scene out.

If the "unknown " guy in hunting clothes walked into the woods and Holly's brother watched them walk off, Why does'nt he go after them OR CALL for extra help from a neighbor or LE?

Clint already got a call to get a gun. So how could they walk away and get out of sight?

They walked. They did'nt drive off on a RV, car, chopper. It seems easy to be able to trail behind them?

WOW, how can they not have a sense of urgency to help??

 

[wfgodot]

IMO, this is one case that could have gathered national attention almost to the level of Natalie Holloway. It was not pursued by anyone close to Holly. It is not only the sheriff's dept that are keeping this quiet. My question is, "why"?

Yeah, kind of tending to agree. The longer this case goes on, the silence would seem to speak volumes.

 

[Xavier]

The well known detective William Dear should be brought into work this case.

This is beyond goofball LE conduct not being able to make any kind of progress in this case.

Det Dear is famous for his theory and verifiable evidence of OJ Simpson's son being the real murderer of Nicole Brown/Ron Goldman.

"Life is Hard. It's even Harder if You're Stupid" ----John Wayne

 

[Xavier]

JMO
It was much more than that though. She actually appeared to know she was already kidnapped right away.

She started calling everyone they knew to come help search for her, freaked out at the school, told Clint to get a gun, called 911, etc. All these things based only on somone hearing a scream and knowing it was someone else beside Drew??? It could have been another friend in a simple argument with her and wanting to talk with her, so they walked in the woods to talk for all they knew.
Which is why I don't think we were provided an accurate understanding of exactly what was told to who and when.

Something she knew or was told on the calls made her know it was a kidnapping and life or death situation. Whether it was some prior things that happened in Holly's life shortly before the events of that day OR whether it was based on things said during the phone calls, something made her realize it right away that a kidnapping had occurred.

Good points Hatfield.

I think by the Mom's reactions to Holly's screams and the camo clothed mystery guy, Mom must've known something from the past from Holly mentioning this "mystery guy"

Maybe Holly mentioned he was weird but not dangerous and Mom's instincts were much more sound, reasoned than the young Holly's.
Mom maybe smelled something wrong or foul about the mystery guy. Maybe Mom knew the mystery guy has a criminal record for violence and did'nt want naive Holly anywhere near this guy.

IMO Mom probably knows who the mystery guy is or could be. Maybe it's a family relative and therefore all the hush-hush, as many "country folks" like to handle issues by their own code of ethics, rules and keep everyone, even LE, in the dark.

How else would Mom have reacted this way? She had to know Holly had known this mystery guy and Mom maybe told Holly to stay away from him, he's a shady dude.

 

[wfgodot]

So, all......if there were one thing we don't know, one single thing that at least would make this case, in your view, more clear, what would that thing be?

I'd like to know if the tracking dog(s) did or did not pick up a scent when they arrived with LE and were led to those woods.

 

[Hatfield]

The well known detective William Dear should be brought into work this case.

This is beyond goofball LE conduct not being able to make any kind of progress in this case.

Det Dear is famous for his theory of OJ Simpson's son being the real murderer of Nicole Brown/Ron Goldman.

"Life is Hard. It's even Harder if You're Stupid" ----John Wayne

I agree. I have been saying for a long time now that it is probably going to take someone with no ties to the area to come in and help solve this mystery. Either a private investigator or some sort of investigative reporter would really help in this case.

I think if the right type of person came in and were able to contact the right people, I think the answers could be found out, and may be surprisingly easy if the right person came in.

So many things are disturbing about this case. I just remembered one thing that happened in the very first week that I found very disturbing. There were T-shirts being sold during the very first few days of her being missing. It was crazy, because it was literally only about 3 days after she went missing, and T-shirts were alredy being sold. My goodness, I would still be having trouble accepting that she was actually missing and I would be offended to have T-shirts be printed. From my rememberence, I think the T-shirt coordination was from a friend of the family, and not the family themselves. If it were my family, I know I would have not allowed that so early because I would still be hoping she would show up or be found at any moment.

So many things about this case are disturbing.

 

[Hatfield]

Good points Hatfield.

I think by the Mom's reactions to Holly's screams and the camo clothed mystery guy, Mom must've known something from the past from Holly mentioning this "mystery guy"

Maybe Holly mentioned he was weird but not dangerous and Mom's instincts were much more sound, reasoned than the young Holly's.
Mom maybe smelled something wrong or foul about the mystery guy. Maybe Mom knew the mystery guy has a criminal record for violence and did'nt want naive Holly anywhere near this guy.

IMO Mom probably knows who the mystery guy is or could be. Maybe it's a family relative and therefore all the hush-hush, as many "country folks" like to handle issues by their own code of ethics, rules and keep everyone, even LE, in the dark.

How else would Mom have reacted this way? She had to know Holly had known this mystery guy and Mom maybe told Holly to stay away from him, he's a shady dude.

JMO
Yeah, I am left to think that they probably know what happened.

Just based on the very first interview where there was a total lack of any pleading for the kidnapper to let her go. The wording used was more along the lines of Holly please come home.....almost as if she had a choice or something. It was really bizarre. And then in the immediate weeks that followed, there was no pleading from either LE or anyone else for the kidnappers to let her go. It just seemed like they knew what happened and couldnt do any more about it. It just had a feeling of hopelessness. It was really strange.

 

[Xavier]

I agree. I have been saying for a long time now that it is probably going to take someone with no ties to the area to come in and help solve this mystery. Either a private investigator or some sort of investigative reporter would really help in this case.

I think if the right type of person came in and were able to contact the right people, I think the answers could be found out, and may be surprisingly easy if the right person came in.

So many things are disturbing about this case. I just remembered one thing that happened in the very first week that I found very disturbing. There were T-shirts being sold during the very first few days of her being missing. It was crazy, because it was literally only about 3 days after she went missing, and T-shirts were alredy being sold. My goodness, I would still be having trouble accepting that she was actually missing and I would be offended to have T-shirts be printed. From my rememberence, I think the T-shirt coordination was from a friend of the family, and not the family themselves. If it were my family, I know I would have not allowed that so early because I would still be hoping she would show up or be found at any moment.

So many things about this case are disturbing.

Hatfield---- Yes, agreed. This is so disturbing it makes me FLAT OUT ANGRY for the bumbling LE and lack of progress and LACK OF LEADERSHIP.

I do think 3 DAYS IS A LONG TIME. Think about it and put someone dear to you in Holly's place. Holly's disappearance becomes even more magnified since it seems this family, relatives are close.

 

[Hatfield]

So, all......if there were one thing we don't know, one single thing that at least would make this case, in your view, more clear, what would that thing be?

I'd like to know if the tracking dog(s) did or did not pick up a scent when they arrived with LE and were led to those woods.

I cant just pick one. :banghead:

-Would love to know the exact times and who called who that whole morning. If any of it was text messages, would like to see those as well.

-Would love to have any and all 911 calls released

-Would like to be able to interview the neighbor and his Mom to understand exactly what they heard and who she called and then what did she witness upon arriving at the home.

-Would like to interview the person who supposedly had the conflict with Drew and his dad at Gram's place.

-Would like to be able to talk with Clint "off the record".

-Would like to be able to talk with Drew "off the record".