TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #3

[Ransom]

Even that does not explain an autopsy not being complete. An autopsy is an examination of the body, not dealing with the lab tests that may be needed afterward.

The coroner does the autopsy. IN this case, the State of TN, medical examiner (coroner) is doing the exam. Get in line. JMO.

http://health.state.tn.us/smep/

ETA: if you can find a coroner/ME in Dyersburg, please post. TIA.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I think the additional testing and quiet are a result of "the Casey Anthony effect". The State of FL knew she was guilty but IMO failed to convince the jury bc the prosecution felt it was a slam dunk. I feel that bc her guilt was obvious to most Americans that the prosecution just assumed that the jury would reach the same conclusion no matter what was presented to them and I believe they left out key pieces of evidence or facts that would have convicted her. I don't think that other LE agencies are willing to make the same mistake. They are going to have a solid case before they make an arrest, the suspect lawyers up, evidence is revealed, and the case is tried in the court of public
opinion, i.e. Nancy Grace. I believe that LE doesn't want to be seen as incompetent and that they want to make sure that there aren't any holes so that they can prevent the 3 ring circus that accompanied the CA fiasco. The public is sick of watching cases that are sabotaged by lawyers and suspects (think of all the current cases where LE knows the parent knows what happened to the missing child but said parent(s) are either free or delaying their trial because of lack of evidence or slick lawyers). The State of TN doesn't have the best record as of late and I'm sure they can't afford to screw this one up. Maybe it's just wishful thinking but I want to believe that the delays are the result of LE and prosecutors building a solid case and that they have every intention of nailing the SOB that murdered Karen. I'd rather have them triple checking and collecting every conceivable piece of evidence available if it means a guilty verdict. I'm so sick of watching the guilty go free.

MOO

I agree with you. My worst moment during the Casey Anthony trial was when someone was giving evidence about the trace of the heart sticker placed on the tape over Caylee's mouth, and which was destroyed somehow at the lab. The witness who processed the evidence was asked if she took a photograph of it said it "wasn't her job to take pictures." *head desk*

So really, the longer they take, the better, imo. :twocents:

 

[ThoughtFox]

Even that does not explain an autopsy not being complete. An autopsy is an examination of the body, not dealing with the lab tests that may be needed afterward.

What I'm talking about is trace evidence on the body such as hair or DNA from other sources - animals, family members, strangers, etc.

Anything that has to be processed is going to take time in Tennessee. We only have one crime lab for the whole state, I believe. This comes up again and again in these cases.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I agree with you. My worst moment during the Casey Anthony trial was when someone was giving evidence about the trace of the heart sticker placed on the tape over Caylee's mouth, and which was destroyed somehow at the lab. The witness who processed the evidence was asked if she took a photograph of it said it "wasn't her job to take pictures." *head desk*

So really, the longer they take, the better, imo. :twocents:

Agreed. In a CSI world, LE had better have it together bc the modern jury has high expectations especially when sitting on a high profile case. I also believe that some of the silence is due to the fact that if the husband is the POI then her family has it's hands tied bc they don't want to share with the media what they know bc they have to maintain a relationship with him bc of the daughters. And the sons probably don't want to believe their father could be responsible. I also think more families are reluctant to use the media if LE has a suspect in mind and has eliminated the need to ask for public assistance. Again, the Anthony factor, no one wants to be the next G and C Anthony.

MOO per usual.

 

[stillwatersc]

But in this case there's no clue as to why she left the house, no trip to a store, no receipts, no camera. To me it's comparing apples and oranges. :cow:
The car was near her house, and the body was found just a few miles away further out in the country but in a place where locals wouldn't go, especially on Halloween night. Indeed, the police never searched there and she was found by the cemetery caretaker after the kudzu died from the frost.
Her body was hidden, not merely "left" somewhere. Whoever did it thought they had covered her up. Most random crime isn't covered up that way, imo. :twocents: I think leaving someone in a random field is vastly different than hiding them in a cemetery near their home, but that's just my opinion.

Agreed. Back on 11/3/11 in Karen's original thread, I was one of the first to speculate that the car had been placed there by someone other than Karen. I hope to heaven that dad didn't do it, but it is not looking good for this family. Since it is taking so long it seems for an arrest, I don't see why other angles can't be explored. Even a discussion of a possible unlikely random murder can generate ideas or provide clues & possibilities & doesn't detract from finding a killer close to Karen. Found Deceased TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #1 - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Originally Posted by stillwatersc
The bloodhound should have found a trail from the car. I think the car/flat tire could be a red herring and she was never in the car.

 

[stillwatersc]

... Maybe it's just wishful thinking but I want to believe that the delays are the result of LE and prosecutors building a solid case and that they have every intention of nailing the SOB that murdered Karen. I'd rather have them triple checking and collecting every conceivable piece of evidence available if it means a guilty verdict. I'm so sick of watching the guilty go free.

MOO

My fear is that they TBI doesn't have much and Karen won't get justice. What good is hair/fibers/DNA on the body from someone she lived with? Hiding the body in kudzu was a stupid mistake. Hopefully the killer made other mistakes.

 

[stillwatersc]

OOPs Salem. I just noticed your comment. :silenced: :blushing::blushing:

Won't happen again.

 

[NC Analyzer]

Agreed. In a CSI world, LE had better have it together bc the modern jury has high expectations especially when sitting on a high profile case. I also believe that some of the silence is due to the fact that if the husband is the POI then her family has it's hands tied bc they don't want to share with the media what they know bc they have to maintain a relationship with him bc of the daughters. And the sons probably don't want to believe their father could be responsible. I also think more families are reluctant to use the media if LE has a suspect in mind and has eliminated the need to ask for public assistance. Again, the Anthony factor, no one wants to be the next G and C Anthony.

MOO per usual.

I absolutely agree with this. I've seen many people ask why haven't the children been placed in protective custody if DS is the POI, but sadly, without any evidence to substantiate that the children are at risk, there is no way the State has any right to remove them from the home. Parental rights are soverign and unless it can be proven that the children are being abused or neglected, they will remain in their father's custody. I'm fairly certain Karen's parents are walking on eggshells in order to maintain a relationship with DS so they have the ability to keep "eyes on" the children at this time. I pray for their safety.

 

[cocomod]

I think it is very interesting that the family is even being very quiet in Karen's case. I think that you may very well be right; they are biting their tongue so that they do not lose contact with the children. Even IF they suspect DS, they will not say anything publicly.

I still believe that DS is likely responsible; there are a lot of "circumstantial" clues that point to him. I also still believe that this is one reason that Box is taking so long to make an arrest. I really think that he is crossing his t's and dotting his i's so that he does not make a mistake. I think there are several reasons for him to make certain in this case.

These are all :cow: pure speculation on my part:
1. Box may be taking his time because he thinks that this was a personal crime; therefore, he thinks that the POI will not commit another similar crime.
2. Box may be taking his time because he does not want to ruin a person's reputation if the evidence does not prove his case.
3. Box may be taking his time so that IF the evidence proves that it is not DS, the kids will not get a tainted view of their father.
4. In the local papers, I have read several disparaging remarks about Sheriff Box. It seems like there may be locals that are already unhappy with this "small town" sheriff
5. This is a smaller town with less resources. Therefore, this may be one reason that they sent her body to the state ME office. They may be taking a back-seat to other cases at the ME office. Box may not be familiar enough with the political "rules" of pushing the ME office to hurry the results along.

 

[officer'swife 2010]

I'm sure LE has a suspect in their minds and somebody their watching closely, and its probably DS. I just don't think anybody else would have done this to her, I mean what are the chances? He probably did kill her outside the home, but did LE even search the house right after? I read other places where they didn't search the garage until a later time. I think the car holds key evidence, but then again, I'm sure her husband drove the car while they were married right? So of course his DNA would be in the car, I know my husband drives my car sometimes so his DNA is in my car and I can always tell when he's in the car because the seat is pushed back, just have to wait and see what LE has, hopefully it won't be too much longer.

And I agree I fear for those kids too, but the state has to have a certain reason to remove the children out of DS custody, and I'm sure his older sons don't want to believe he did it either. I think the reason for the murder was out of jealously, like if I can't have you nobody can jealously. We've seen it happen before many many times! Maybe I'm wrong, just MOO of course

 

[officer'swife 2010]

We are just wondering about the length of time for the autopsy, not the investigation. Autopsies NEVER takes weeks...unless the body is perhaps hundreds of years old, or they are awaiting toxicology studies, which is what I suggested as the only thing I can think of. Even then, they don't usually say the autopsy is not done yet, just that they are awaiting some results, like with Celina Cass.

As I said, they don't have to tell us how she died, but it is odd saying they are still doing the autopsy. JMO

I can agree with this statement, to an extent, I mean when people just suddenly die for no reason and they send them to have an autoposy done, it usually just takes a few days then they are sent back to the family so they can be laid to rest. I am friends with the Sheriff on FB and the way he gave the statement was like this is going to take up to 8 weeks or longer before the body can be released because they are going over every aspect of the body, so I mean I guess they want to take time to fine comb (is that the right word) and not send the body back and then not be 100 percent sure right? IDK, just guessing

 

[NC Analyzer]

I can agree with this statement, to an extent, I mean when people just suddenly die for no reason and they send them to have an autoposy done, it usually just takes a few days then they are sent back to the family so they can be laid to rest. I am friends with the Sheriff on FB and the way he gave the statement was like this is going to take up to 8 weeks or longer before the body can be released because they are going over every aspect of the body, so I mean I guess they want to take time to fine comb (is that the right word) and not send the body back and then not be 100 percent sure right? IDK, just guessing

The issue many folks are having with the length of time involved with the body is that this is taking an exceptionally long time no matter what the circumstances are surrounding the death. It really doesn't take this long to complete an autopsy...even a complex autopsy. This is highly unusual with regard to the timeframe.
It was suggested on another site that this may be a legal maneuver by the defense and/or LE to potentially match an injury to potential weapon(s) used to kill her. I don't know, but that would be one explanation.

 

[cluciano63]

The issue many folks are having with the length of time involved with the body is that this is taking an exceptionally long time no matter what the circumstances are surrounding the death. It really doesn't take this long to complete an autopsy...even a complex autopsy. This is highly unusual with regard to the timeframe.
It was suggested on another site that this may be a legal maneuver by the defense and/or LE to potentially match an injury to potential weapon(s) used to kill her. I don't know, but that would be one explanation.

Thank you-my issue is not with how long it takes to get DNA or tox reports back, that can take months...but it IS unusual to be told that the autopsy is not completed after this amount of time, or to have had her body released. Generally, the body is not kept "hostage" awaiting DNA results, etc. so if it is true she had not been able to be buried or otherwise laid to rest, this is very unusual. JMO

 

[NC Analyzer]

Thank you-my issue is not with how long it takes to get DNA or tox reports back, that can take months...but it IS unusual to be told that the autopsy is not completed after this amount of time, or to have had her body released. Generally, the body is not kept "hostage" awaiting DNA results, etc. so if it is true she had not been able to be buried or otherwise laid to rest, this is very unusual. JMO

I absolutely agree. I cannot figure out why this is taking so long! My reply to Officer's Wife was just to clarify that no autopsy takes this long....as far as the musings about comparing the possible injury to a murder weapon, I was just speculating, but I still don't think that reason can justify why her body hasn't been released. This is crazy if you ask me....or like you said, she is being "held hostage". The family must be very frustrated with all of this. How terrible for them. :dunno:

 

[OldSteve]

I think it is very interesting that the family is even being very quiet in Karen's case. I think that you may very well be right; they are biting their tongue so that they do not lose contact with the children. Even IF they suspect DS, they will not say anything publicly.

I still believe that DS is likely responsible; there are a lot of "circumstantial" clues that point to him. I also still believe that this is one reason that Box is taking so long to make an arrest. I really think that he is crossing his t's and dotting his i's so that he does not make a mistake. I think there are several reasons for him to make certain in this case.

These are all :cow: pure speculation on my part:
1. Box may be taking his time because he thinks that this was a personal crime; therefore, he thinks that the POI will not commit another similar crime.
2. Box may be taking his time because he does not want to ruin a person's reputation if the evidence does not prove his case.
3. Box may be taking his time so that IF the evidence proves that it is not DS, the kids will not get a tainted view of their father.
4. In the local papers, I have read several disparaging remarks about Sheriff Box. It seems like there may be locals that are already unhappy with this "small town" sheriff
5. This is a smaller town with less resources. Therefore, this may be one reason that they sent her body to the state ME office. They may be taking a back-seat to other cases at the ME office. Box may not be familiar enough with the political "rules" of pushing the ME office to hurry the results along.

Lots of good points!
I would add by taking his time, Box might be hoping that someone breaks from the pressure of waiting and confesses, or perhaps seeks a plea deal.

 

[officer'swife 2010]

This may be way out in left field, but maybe the family did get the body back, and maybe they had to her laid to rest secertly, I agree with you guys, I can't understand why they would hold a body so long, do the DNA tests and wait for the results. I think the body wouldn't be able to make it so many months before it would start turning into dust, sorry to be so crude about it, but if I'm wrong just tell me, I can take it.

I really don't believe the family got the body back yet, just throwing something out? JUSTICE FOR KAREN SWIFT!!!!

 

[FightTheOstrich]

This may be way out in left field, but maybe the family did get the body back, and maybe they had to her laid to rest secertly, I agree with you guys, I can't understand why they would hold a body so long, do the DNA tests and wait for the results. I think the body wouldn't be able to make it so many months before it would start turning into dust, sorry to be so crude about it, but if I'm wrong just tell me, I can take it.

I really don't believe the family got the body back yet, just throwing something out? JUSTICE FOR KAREN SWIFT!!!!

It is a small community. Is it possible that they are waiting to release the body to her family after an arrest is made? Perhaps there is a disagreement over final decisions? Legally, I believe the husband would still have control even though she had filed for divorce. It makes me think about Shele Danishefsky and how the husband, a suspect in her death interfered with what her family wanted. Just a random thought...

MOO per usual

 

[TxLady2]

I was thinking that same thing. Backed up in the ME office. This does appear to be taking an unusually long time though. They haven't even released her body for burial. I just can't imagine why they haven't been able to complete the physical findings and at least release the body to the family. Even if they are waiting on test results to come back and don't provide the final report or a cause of death, it just seems like this has gone on far to long.

If the state lab is backed up, as I've read, it's possible that there was a lapse of time before they even began to do the autopsy. It could have just begun a few days or a week ago, for all we know.
I wonder, since they seem to be waiting on toxicology and other lab results, if they are holding the body because they can't determine a COD until those results are in. They would not want to release the body if they thought they needed to look closer at something they didn't find initially.
I also found out awhile back that not all autopsies are the same. For instance, they do not always take the brain out and study it, they only do that if there is some reason to, and this could also delay the results. In a homicide case, they do take longer because the prosecution wants every possible bit of evidence they can get and they want it to be indisputable.

 

[Joe Friday]

If the state lab is backed up, as I've read, it's possible that there was a lapse of time before they even began to do the autopsy. It could have just begun a few days or a week ago, for all we know.
I wonder, since they seem to be waiting on toxicology and other lab results, if they are holding the body because they can't determine a COD until those results are in. They would not want to release the body if they thought they needed to look closer at something they didn't find initially.
I also found out awhile back that not all autopsies are the same. For instance, they do not always take the brain out and study it, they only do that if there is some reason to, and this could also delay the results. In a homicide case, they do take longer because the prosecution wants every possible bit of evidence they can get and they want it to be indisputable.

BBM

I'm with you. I think they are holding the body just in case more evidence is needed.

Once a body is buried it is a lengthy procedure through the courts and expense to exhume a body. It is better to hold off releasing the body if once the test are done more tissue or DNA samples are needed, than release the body now and have to go through the exhumation process. If LE/DA is denied exhumation then their case might go right down the tubes.

Patience is a virtue.

JMO

 

[cocomod]

BBM

I'm with you. I think they are holding the body just in case more evidence is needed.

Once a body is buried it is a lengthy procedure through the courts and expense to exhume a body. It is better to hold off releasing the body if once the test are done more tissue or DNA samples are needed, than release the body now and have to go through the exhumation process. If LE/DA is denied exhumation then their case might go right down the tubes.

Patience is a virtue.
JMO

I keep being told that. I guess they are pounding it in to my head :banghead:. I need to learn patience, but - how?!