GUILTY TN - Six elementary students killed in Chattanooga school bus crash, 21 Nov 2016

[Inthedetails]

He was just in a accident 2 months ago when his bus side swiped a kia when he decided to make a blind turn.

So he should have lost his job then.

Btw: I thought school bus drivers were supposed to be more professional than this guy.

He was in an accident recently in the school bus and at least one parent was complaining about his behavior while driving the kids?

That's not really a question, but a statement of disbelief that this guy was driving a load of children.

jmo

 

[DexterMorgan]

http://wncn.com/2016/11/22/chattano...-bus-driver-asked-if-they-were-ready-to-die/#

BBM.

Eyes are pretty bloodshot in the mug shot pic. Wonder what the tox report will show? My guess is it will be positive for more than one substance.

I wouldn't let him walk my dog down the street let alone trust him to drive 30 kids to school and back.

 

[CarmelEyesD]

Why did they move the bus before NTSB got there? Wouldn't that have been important for them to see?

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/11/chattanooga-crash-investigators-search-answers/

 

[gregjrichards]

Why did they move the bus before NTSB got there? Wouldn't that have been important for them to see?

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/11/chattanooga-crash-investigators-search-answers/

From your link "Durham School Services, a company that transports more than 1 million students daily at schools across the United States, said it was working with police and school officials to investigate."

This is deeply concerning if this guy is the kind of drivers they employ.

 

[KaaBoom]

It looks like Google Maps has already removed the area from their street view. I was looking at conditions on the roadway, to see if there were bends or obstructions and there is an area at Talley and Midwoode for some reason you can't see. Like Google did in the Newsome/Christian murders, also in Tennessee.

Are you sure? I'm having no problem viewing the location in Streetview. There is a missing section of images, but that's past the crash location.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0243029,-85.2348314,3a,66.8y,125.88h,79.93t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfjlknW_MgQjmsLpHffU3PQ!2e0

You can also view it in Bing Maps.

https://www.bing.com/mapspreview?osid=54a915e3-52ee-4397-9bee-eaa8affa3c09&cp=35.024302~-85.234823&lvl=19&dir=130.337&pi=13.81727&style=x&mo=z.0&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

 

[K_Z]

School-Transportation-Related Crashes

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811890

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/school-bus-crashes-fatalities-map.html

http://www.governing.com/topics/pub...hool-bus-accidents-fatalities-statistics.html

In a policy reversal late last year, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) recommended that all school buses be equipped with lap and shoulder seat belts after previously rejecting such requirements.

 

[dotr]

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/33765242/blood-assurance-asking-community-for-donations
UPDATE: Critical need for blood, Blood Assurance asking community for donations

Updated: Nov 21, 2016 9:50 PM EST By WRCB Staff

CHATTANOOGA, TN (WRCB) - UPDATE: Blood Assurance is extending its regular hours Tuesday to accept donations for the victims of the deadly bus crash on Talley Road Monday afternoon

Desperately needed are blood, platelets and especially Type O-negative blood, which is considered to be "universal" since it can be given to virtually any patient in need.
Lines for those willing to donate were outside the building about 7:00pm Monday night.
"We have seen an outpouring from the community," said Mindy Quinn, Blood Assurance. " Our centers are completely full, we are bringing in staff from all over and we need donors to not only come tonight, we're good for right now, but we need donors to think about coming in tomorrow, Wednesday , Friday and even next week because this need isn't going to go away quickly."
Blood Assurance of Chattanooga is asking for the community to donate blood as soon as possible to replenish the blood supply due to the school bus crash.

 

[KaaBoom]

I've never seen seatbelts on school buses, although we live in a district that's considered desirable. One of the things is, they pad the seats so kids who are flung around typically do okay in a minor accident, and few school buses are in major accidents. Also, it is hard to get kids off a bus if they're belted in and there's a problem like a small wreck that could cause a fire. I think the need to evacuate a bus for a safety issue overrides the need to strap kids in when the seats are all padded.

This is horrifically sad. Prayers for parents who lost their beloved children, and prayers for families who are struggling with hospitalized children.

Many school busses have seatbelts. California, Florida, Louisiana, New Jersey, New York, and Texas require them. There is one reason and one reason only that all school busses don't have seatbelts. They don't have them because of cost, not because it is a safety issue.

 

[KaaBoom]

My two cents here. A 24 year old doesn't have enough driving experience to handle a bus full of kids...period! If he did do this on purpose, there is no punishment fitting for him.

Prayers to all these families and for those babies still fighting to live in intensive care.

How old would you propose the drivers be? 21 has always been the standard minimum age for bus driving jobs. In many states, school bus drivers can be hired as young as 18 years old. I wouldn't really agree with hiring 18 year olds, but 24 years old seems like more than an adequate age. A 24 year old could have as much as eight years of driving experience. If they don't have it down after eight years I doubt they ever will. I would be more concerned with school bus drivers over age 60, then I would with a 24 year old driver.

 

[dotr]

Fwiw,in Canada..
https://canadasafetycouncil.org/child-safety/there-need-seat-belts-school-buses

Safety experts, including the Canada Safety Council, do not believe seat belts on school buses would improve safety. There is no scientific evidence that lives would be saved. Transport Canada has applied approximately 40 safety standards to the design and construction of school buses made in and imported into Canada. These include specialized brake systems, lighting, emergency exits, escape hatches in the roof, and high padded seatbacks that cushion the impact of a crash.
School buses are not passenger vehicles. They are built to rely on safety not on seat belts, and are designed and constructed differently from passenger cars. They are bigger, heavier, and higher so they have a body-on-frame design. Newer systems, such as an anti-lock braking system would be more beneficial.
School buses protect passengers through “compartmentalization,” a design that includes:

• Seats with high backs;
• Seats filled with energy-absorbing material;
• Seats placed close together to form compartments;
• Strong seat anchorages.

Research has shown that lap belts could actually increase the risk of head injuries in a head-on collision (the most common type of bus collision). By holding the child’s pelvis firmly in place, the torso would whip forward; with the head striking the back of the seat in front of them with greater force than if the whole body had hit the seat. This could result in serious head and neck injuries.
Combination lap and shoulder belts would require stiffer seats, which could increase injury to students who are not buckled up. The driver cannot ensure that every child has their seat belt on; some buses can carry up to 70 children. Moreover, the shoulder belts can lead to abdominal injuries because of “submarining” – when children slip down, risking injuries to organs covered by the lap belts.

 

[K_Z]

Drivers under age 25 in many cases are either prohibited from renting cars, or incur a hefty age-related additional fee (which can sometimes double the daily rental price of the car). Even military members must often be "on official orders" to rent cars if they are under age 25, and even then the additional costs can be charged.

https://www.vroomvroomvroom.com/teens-and-rental-cars/

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/age-requirement-rent-car-62294.html

 

[K_Z]

I think the bigger issue here is the deferred discipline and firing for THIS particular 24 year old.

This PARTICULAR 24 year old had many red flags that he was completely incompetent. And yet, he was retained and continuously given the keys to the bus. Apparently, with no ride-along supervision.

This PARTICULAR 24 year old was thoroughly unqualified to drive a school bus. That is abundantly clear.

There may be "some" 24 year olds who ARE professional enough, safe enough, and responsible enough, to entrust the safety of children to them as school bus drivers. But I would opine that this hypothetical 24 year old would be the RARE exception, not the norm.

If "all" or "most" 24 year olds were responsible and safe drivers, then we wouldn't see car rental agencies and insurance agencies impose additional restrictions and fees on this age group, IMO. The outcome statistics for this age group are incontrovertible. Actuarials know this.

ETA: These families are from low income areas. They deserved far better than this irresponsible, criminally malicious, immature and impulsive "driver" for their children.

 

[KaaBoom]

Just as I suspected, the school bus service is handled by a for-profit, private contractor.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-bus-driver-speed-limit-crash-article-1.2883285

That means the CEO pads his profits by hiring anyone he can willing to work for a low wage, with little in the way of training or background checks. No public accountability, just pure profit. Just another taxpayer rip-off.

That's the real problem right there. When I was a kid all of my school bus drivers were school district employees. From a small rural school district with just six school buses to a major city school district with hundreds of buses, they were all school district employees. I had a couple of bad bus drivers too. But they were fired pretty quickly. Usually the bad ones were weeded out and replaced in the first couple of weeks of the school year.

Today the school districts just contract the bus service to the lowest bidder, who then hire minimum wage drivers to drive the cheapest crappiest busses they can find. Then the school districts can wash their hands of the whole thing, and blame the contractor.

 

[katydid23]

Our kids school busses had cameras placed right above the driver seat. They streamed video of the driver continuously. No one would have been able to speed or talk about being hungover without being suspended or fired. I am surprised they did not have cameras.

 

[K_Z]

Info on "outsourcing" of school transportation. Contracted busing is a reality for most public school districts nationwide (and has been for decades). Lots of info at this link:

http://www.yellowbuses.org/school-administrator/school-bus-contracting-information/

The reasons that districts consider contracted transportation vary, but often fall into one of the following categories:

The district fleet is aged, and funding is not available to upgrade it;

New equipment regulations and safety or environmental innovations make new buses desirable, but the district replacement schedule does not allow for rapid turnover of the fleet;

Transportation cost increases have outpaced funding;

Economies of scale are not always available and costs are out of line with similar districts;

System inefficiencies have resulted in overextended resources and scheduling difficulties;

Federal, state, or administrative changes and additional responsibilities (redistricting, addition of interdistrict magnet schools, parental choice prerogatives) challenge the system;

Administrative headaches (dealing with parents, employee absenteeism, drug and alcohol testing, mandated paperwork) require an inordinate share of administrators’ time and attention.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/nsta/6571/Yellow-School-Bus-Industry-White-Paper.pdf

 

[Hatfield]

[Mateen] said her children complained to her about the driver, and she took the issue to the Board of Education, the school and the bus company, Durham School Services. She said she also wrote a letter to the driver, which the principal read aloud to him as she and several children watched.

"He said, 'So? I'd do it again,'" Mateen recalled.

<snipped> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-complained-about-driver-deadly-crash-n687416

How does a parent live with that -- knowing that people who had the authority to terminate the driver's employment knew about this and yet nothing was done. Now Ms. Mateen has to bury a daughter and has two other children who are critically injured.

Unbelievable.

Actually and sadly I do believe it because when I was in 9th grade we had a school bus driver that took unnecessary risks with us. He wasn't mean or anything but we had this one long street where there was a huge bump in the road toward the end of the street.

When he started realizing that the bump was causing us kids in the back to get a little airborne and we started to enjoy it by hooping and hollering, the driver made it a habit to gain speed each time before hitting the bump.

That lasted till the one day he hit the bump a little too fast and one kid flew up so high he came down awkward and hit his chin on the chair in front which caused him to bite his lip real bad.

Blood went everywhere, driver had to pull over and lay the kid on the ground and call for an ambulance. I never did see the poor kid or the driver on that route again.

Not nearly as serious as yesterday's terrible incident.
Prayers for the children and their families.

 

[K_Z]

Katy, I read that cameras were recovered by NTSB investigators, in addition to the "black box". Perhaps the bigger issue is that cameras may have been available, but perhaps were never reviewed or monitored. Maybe they weren't even functional. We don't know yet.

 

[K_Z]

I will also add that the addition of out-sourced contract busing means that parents are often confused about who to bring their concerns to, when there is a problem. Do you contact the school office? The principal? The school board? The bus garage?

I think a lot of parents are very confused as to who to call when there is a problem. School districts can do a much better job of communicating who to notify when there is a problem or a question. I have strongly advocated for this in my role as a board member and committee member. We have to be more transparent as to the relationship between the school district and the contract provider. It's my opinion that a district employee should be the identified contact for problems with a driver or bus situation, and the district should then work the solutions with the contract provider.

The district is not "absolved" of responsibility for transportation issues by using a contract provider, IMO.

 

[KaaBoom]

No I think that's fair enough. I think people shouldn't be allowed to drive until they're at least 25. I know people probably think that's nuts and I realise there are logistical difficulties inherent in such an idea - but given that the human brain isn't mature until 25 I think it's a fair age to take on the really quite heavy responsibility of driving vehicles. I mean so many people die because of cars/trucks/whatever, yet we are all very ho-hum about it. We just accept that its okay that huge numbers of people are slaughtered in vehicular accidents every year. The same amount of people dying to crime or terrorism and imagine the outcry?

Anyway, I know its pie in the sky stuff.

So you think if he was another few months older, the situation would have been different? Does something magically happen on a person's 25 birthday that makes them mature? 24 is immature, 25 is mature?

Age had nothing to do with this. The real issue is spending the money to hire quality bus driver, and making school busses safer.

 

[Valkyrii]

In 1984, when my husband was 9, his school bus was hit by a train going 49mph. Miraculously, only the bus driver died. All 26 kids on the bus were hurt, but only a few seriously injured. The bus itself was knocked off it's chassis. I think what saved them was that the train hit the front of the bus instead of a direct hit in the middle. They eventually found the bus driver to be at fault. She had failed to stop and look for a train while crossing the tracks.

I mention this because it does show how tough these vehicles are and how survivable accidents involving them can be.

But it also illuminates how absolutely reckless this guy had to be to do this amount of damage. This wasn't a case of going little too fast and making a mistake. This could have been prevented if someone had paid attention to the complaints and taken them seriously. It's absolutely senseless.