Tony Padilla Q&A

[Jolynna]

I have not read this thread sorry. But my first question is does the notary support the document she notarized? or don't we know? Here the notary has to note what kind of document(title of it etc.) she is notarizing otherwise separate jurats could be swipped and swapped all day long. TIA

I don't think anybody has checked with the notary. I assume it was someone from Baez's office.

My point is not that anybody even DID change the document around. I think a contract with separate signature pages that don't reference what document they go with and contract pages that aren't initialed so that there is evidence the signatories "agree to" and "saw" THOSE terms is worthless.

I think the document was left open to challenge. It is being contested.


Besides the fact that the signature pages are copies which in this day of digital manipulation might not themselves even be real, I think the entire contract means nothing. Anybody could stick ANYTHING with separate signature pages that are vague and reference nothing. Nothing proves that agreement is THE agreement the signatures are supposed to go with.

If Baez had sent Tony, Leonard, Tracy and Rob copies through certified mail, Tony wouldn't be ABLE to say he couldn't get his hands on a copy of the document he signed.

JMO

 

[Intermezzo]

JB likes to smirk, and talk about others being 'skooled.' Yet he has been constantly schooled since this case started. And I'm just guessing, but I bet it also happened in the Polk county case, and other cases.

What JB has learned is that he can play dumb over and over again, and just not do what is expected and requested. Since he gets away with it, then his system works. He doesn't have to do it.

Why pay a staff, when you don't have to?

I agree Spangle

BBM
IMO Judge S is being very patient and liberal thus far in regards to Baez and (what I regard) as calculated efforts to not notify all the proper parties when he submits motions.

IMO. At this point in the case and, with the attorney's he has brought on board to assist him, there should be no issues with filing motions and notifying the proper parties..
:twocents:

 

[ClockWatcher]

Behold!! Exhibit A (or a link to view it for yourself!)

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20089919/detail.html


From Angel Who Cares, Media Queen of WS, here is the page that has all the links for the motion, brief etc..

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3967270&postcount=2184"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Media Links - *** NO DISCUSSIONS! ***[/ame]


PS...cut and paste has been my MO since Kindergarten, way back in 1964...sadly, I've had to re-train the brain to COPY/Paste. Which one is the right click button??? lol

 

[Intermezzo]

I agree that the original will tell a lot.

However, IMO, this document is still compromised because the signature pages are separate and NOTHING in the signature pages ties them to the Privacy Agreement.

There are no initials or anything in the first two pages of the agreement showing that those pages were the ones to go with the signatures.

I don't think the contract as it is is worth the paper it was printed on. It was done in a way that left it open for dispute and it is being contested.

JMO

BBM
I totally agree Jolynna

 

[Spangle]

I think the contract is compromised, because it has been taken apart. No longer 'original.'

Without the signature on each page, etc.. the other way of insuring that it's orginal, is to keep it stapled together. Remove the staple, and you open the possiblity of tampering.

If this is a 'true copy', then it should show fold lines, not the marks of where the staple use to be.

I would think that removing the staples, would be the same as tearing the agreement. Voiding it. It is no longer bound together as a whole.

But I don't know the law on it.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I guess you missed it. But we were talking about JB. Who is not known for having a common knowledge of things taught in law school. :blowkiss: :angel:

Isn't he a teacher at the Law school?!

 

[LambChop]

I don't think anybody has checked with the notary. I assume it was someone from Baez's office.

My point is not that anybody even DID change the document around. I think a contract with separate signature pages that don't reference what document they go with and contract pages that aren't initialed so that there is evidence the signatories "agree to" and "saw" THOSE terms is worthless.

I think the document was left open to challenge. It is being contested.


Besides the fact that the signature pages are copies which in this day of digital manipulation might not themselves even be real, I think the entire contract means nothing. Anybody could stick ANYTHING with separate signature pages that are vague and reference nothing. Nothing proves that agreement is THE agreement the signatures are supposed to go with.

If Baez had sent Tony, Leonard, Tracy and Rob copies through certified mail, Tony wouldn't be ABLE to say he couldn't get his hands on a copy of the document he signed.

JMO

A notary does not keep copies so she would only remember that she notarized a document because her signature is on it. If she keeps a log there may be more information. Interestingly, I believe TP said there were only three people in the room when he signed the document, himself, JB and the notary. You would think if the document were signed all of them would have been in there together. Or could LP's signature line been added after TP signed what he thought was an agreement with his signature only. There are many creative ways that page could have been altered. JMO

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I have not read this thread sorry. But my first question is does the notary support the document she notarized? or don't we know? Here the notary has to note what kind of document(title of it etc.) she is notarizing otherwise separate jurats could be swipped and swapped all day long. TIA

Since she may work for Baez, she probably doesn't keep a log as he may not require one due to the enormous amount of paperwork she notarizes in an average day.

If Tony knows he did not sign a document with LP or anyone else yet his signature turns up on a page which includes the others then I would have to say things are being swipped and swapped. There is no connection that we have found which says the notarized signatures were attached to the correct document other than a staple mark. The pages of the document were not initialed by the people who signed for the notary. Oops.

 

[john's mom]

A notary does not keep copies so she would only remember that she notarized a document because her signature is on it. If she keeps a log there may be more information. Interestingly, I believe TP said there were only three people in the room when he signed the document, himself, JB and the notary. You would think if the document were signed all of them would have been in there together. Or could LP's signature line been added after TP signed what he thought was an agreement with his signature only. There are many creative ways that page could have been altered. JMO

I'm not sure TP said the notary was there. (although she should have been, if she's notarizing the signatures) What I think he said is that there was a third person there, and we surmised it was the notary.

 

[LambChop]

I'm not sure TP said the notary was there. (although she should have been, if she's notarizing the signatures) What I think he said is that there was a third person there, and we surmised it was the notary.

Good point. That would be a BIG issue for JB and the notary. He knows the notary has to be there.....UNLESS....oh, dear. TP please weigh in here. Who was that third person? So was there a Certificate of Acknowledgment below the signature line that you remember or just the line for you to sign and date?

 

[magic-cat]

The document will not hold water in a court of law. Baez just wasted several thousand dollars of taxpayer dollars even bringing this ridiculously constructed document as a basis for anything of a legal nature. Way to go again, Jose! You are batting a thousand on this one aren't you?

The individual pages are not initialed.
None of the signatores were provided with a copy.
The document has been dismantled, as their are staple marks in the copies.
The very language of the document is vague and VERY open to interpretation.
And most importantly?
Tony Padilla says this is NOT the document that he signed...

So back to drawing board Jose...

Oh and I forgot, none of the signatores were NOTICED about the hearing concerning the document...

 

[momtective]

The document will not hold water in a court of law. Baez just wasted several thousand dollars of taxpayer dollars even bringing this ridiculously constructed document as a basis for anything of a legal nature. Way to go again, Jose! You are batting a thousand on this one aren't you?

The individual pages are not initialed.
None of the signatores were provided with a copy.
The document has been dismantled, as their are staple marks in the copies.
The very language of the document is vague and VERY open to interpretation.
And most importantly?
Tony Padilla says this is NOT the document that he signed...

So back to drawing board Jose...

Oh and I forgot, none of the signatores were NOTICED about the hearing concerning the document...

and is the notary's name Gonzalez???

 

[zoomom]

The document will not hold water in a court of law. Baez just wasted several thousand dollars of taxpayer dollars even bringing this ridiculously constructed document as a basis for anything of a legal nature. Way to go again, Jose! You are batting a thousand on this one aren't you?

The individual pages are not initialed.
None of the signatores were provided with a copy.
The document has been dismantled, as their are staple marks in the copies.
The very language of the document is vague and VERY open to interpretation.
And most importantly?
Tony Padilla says this is NOT the document that he signed...

So back to drawing board Jose...

Oh and I forgot, none of the signatores were NOTICED about the hearing concerning the document...

Maybe this is why the state of FLA wants Lawyers to have a certain amount of experience under their belts before they can be Lead on a DP case.:bang:

He's learning on the taxpayer's dime.

 

[milliac]

http://www.flgov.com/pdfs/ref_manual41-68.pdf

Florida law does not require the use of a notary journal; however, you may be interested to know that
the Governor’s Task Force on Notaries Public in 1989 recommended the mandatory use of journals.
Although the Legislature did not follow that recommendation, many notaries in Florida are beginning to
voluntarily use a journal. You may want to consider this option as well. Each time you perform a
notarial act you should record the event your journal.
Numerous notary journals are available on the market today, and they all have similar features. We
recommend that your journal be bound (not loose-leaf) and have consecutively numbered pages, so that
a page could not be removed without being detected. Important information should be recorded in the
journal including:

the date of the notarial act;

the type of notarial act: oath, acknowledgment, attested photocopy, marriage;

the name or brief description of the document;

the party’s printed name, exactly as he or she signed the document;

the party’s address;

the party’s signature;

the type of identification relied upon in identifying the party, including the serial number,
expiration date, date of birth, etc.;

the fee charged for the notary service; and

any additional comments you consider important; for example, the person is blind and you read
the document to him.

 

[DotsEyes]

Staple marks - the document has to be taken apart for copying.

 

[Themis]

I think the contract is compromised, because it has been taken apart. No longer 'original.'

Without the signature on each page, etc.. the other way of insuring that it's orginal, is to keep it stapled together. Remove the staple, and you open the possiblity of tampering.

If this is a 'true copy', then it should show fold lines, not the marks of where the staple use to be.

I would think that removing the staples, would be the same as tearing the agreement. Voiding it. It is no longer bound together as a whole.

But I don't know the law on it.

Law offices have to remove staples and copy all the time. If there is a representation in court that the document is the original and the other person who signed it says it is not, there is a fact that is in dispute. If a legal instrument, will, contract, mortgage or other document is a very important legal document it is important to have some method of proving that all the pages are there. One way to do that is to have each person signing the document initial the bottom corner of the page and number the pages. It's just good legal practice to do that. Otherwise, there is a risk that someone with a lot at stake could switch pages. It would be very wrong for an attorney to offer something to the court and represent it was the intact original document (regardless of if staples were removed for copying -- as long as it was re-assembled correctly) if in fact that were not true. There are rules of professional conduct and attorneys may not intentionally tender false evidence to a court.

 

[Pattymarie]

OK...I have finally read thru this entire thread and I admit I am not a legal eagle...but am I missing something? All this talk here had to do with people and events that happened a couple of months after the murder. Why is any of this relevant to Casey's guilt/innocence?

 

[milliac]

“Loose Certificates”
Preprinted notarial certificates designed to be attached to a document should be used only in rare
circumstances. Most documents will have a notarial certificate already printed on the document. Use
that certificate, but make it comply with Florida law, if necessary. If the document has no notarial
certificate, you should ask the document signer which notarial act is required for the execution of the
document (an oath/affirmation or an acknowledgment). At the signer’s direction, you may type or
print the appropriate certificate on the document below the designated signature line for the document
signer. Only in rare circumstances should you actually attach a “loose certificate.” If you do, be sure to
state in the notarial certificate the exact document and signature to which the notarization applies.

 

[Themis]

I noticed that each signature page was created separately. There is nothing on the signature page that identifies it with going with that contract, like a header or a few lines of test from the precedent page. Normally, it is good legal practice to have at least two lines of text from the previous page even if the previous page's bottom margin is very long. There is nothing on the contract text pages that prove these contract pages were the same pages present at the time of the signing or the time of the notarizing of the signature (which should have been simultaneous). Mr. Padilla says this isn't the contract he signed. The validity of this contract as being binding on the parties is contested and therefore not established as a fact. Without page numbering, two lines of text, initials on the pages, no copies kept by notaries, no copies provided to the other contracting parties and so much at stake in a death penalty criminal case, it is hard to see how the authenticity of this document can be proven by JB. This is an example of trial by ambush -- to possibly take a document with alleged switched pages, no testimony from the person against whom the document is meant to be enforced (TP) and proffer it to the court based on the attorney's oral offering alone, without allowing the prosecution to check out the authenticity (how would they know the pages were switched without having the exact copy that JB was offering in court as the original?)

 

[lisalei321]

I have not read this thread sorry. But my first question is does the notary support the document she notarized? or don't we know? Here the notary has to note what kind of document(title of it etc.) she is notarizing otherwise separate jurats could be swipped and swapped all day long. TIA

JBean,

My sister is a notary in our wonderful state of Florida...The Notary is documenting (notarizing), that the person who is signing the document is who they say they are, by either producing ID or being personally known to the Notary. She has nothing to do with the contents of the document.

Needless to say it sucks, when I need a Notary, cause she can't (and won't) do it, and I have to get the Clerk at the Police Dept. to do it for me