trial day 36: the defense continues its case in chief #106

[websurfer]

Will she be able to sell her artwork if convicted? I know she has some art for sale on Ebay...

 

[atthelake]

When my mom was terminal, she had a friend who sent her cards 3x a week for a year. We found them after she passed as she had kept them all. I'm off to purchase bunches for the family to send, and going to order online those that have elephants in them also. Also, I went online to look for and google "elephant" sympathy cards to send. One I just ordered, says the following.........well, never mind.......... gets too personal and makes me cry so early in the day. I'm going to have bunches for later also, as Katie shared with us the even when there is a guilty verdict, after the trial was the hardest for her.

So......due to Katie's sharing..... I plan to go into high gear with cards after that so they don't feel like it's "over".... it's not over as Katie explained....... that is when the REALLY bad and dark time hits... I have both Sam and Tanishia's surface addresses, so will send to both.

Anyway........just thought to share ... needed to share with those who will understand as for some reason this am.... I am sitting here right now bawling at my computer as I type this..

 

[Liebchenmutti]

Didn't make sense to me, either. It seems as though this dog was abused/neglected already - and given the chance it took off (although I had a rescued beagle who's SOLE mission in life was to RUN. He was old too, and so sweet...

Thank goodness we lived on a big farm - the farm owners ended up with him because they lived farther away from the main road and he was safer with them. His last days were happy and safe.

But if JA is to be believed (ha) the dog she kicked was an afterthought and (at best) neglected.

I cannot begin to fathom what would compel someone to kick a dog. She said he/she got off the leash (who wouldn't!) or lead tied up in the back yard - and ignored - and thus foraged (?) for food in the garbage...

Who would kick a dog in that situation? Who? Not someone with at least 2 ethical brain cells working.

The subsequent sob story was for Det. Flores' - an attempt at displaying regret, remorse, human feeling. Didn't work. The pretense of caring about Napoleon is equally shallow. Napoleon is alive because Travis loved him and therefore JA saw the little guy as a useful tool.

I'm sorry but if someone is capable of harming/neglecting a dog/pet and doesn't or won't acknowledge that and find a healthy home for him/her, then I have zero reason to trust them around people.

Wicked. The defendant is wicked. Ugly and wicked.

I couldn't agree more! The best dog I've ever had was a rescue & the second best (sorry, Petunia!) was the runt of the litter & the mama threw her away so I bottle fed her. I have a soft spot for dogs.

Jodi kicked, hit and verbally abused her mother, most likely killed a helpless pet dog, hit her little brother over the head with a baseball bat--all before she moved out of her home at 17 to begin her life of anal sex with men she used for food & shelter. I hate her.

 

[websurfer]

Uh, just a little picking of nits. From all the accounts I have read of Phineas Gage he didn't "remain mobile" after a steel tamping rod struck him below the cheek, transversed his left eye orbit and exited out the top of his head just forward of the parietal lobe.

From the University of Ohio, Akron page:


BBM

Not that he didn't lose consciousness, but he may not have lost consciousness. Most accounts gloss over the accident and aftermath itself and focus on the personality changes he suffered. But most accounts describe him as being in some manner insensible and having to be carted back home, not surprisingly.

The reason for that is that a the tamping rod, propelled by whatever black powder was in the hole being tamped, is a much slower moving projectile than a bullet. Yeah, it's bigger. So is an arrow. The size of the tamping rod works against it having much energy.

As I have pointed out, what a bullet essentially is, is a little lead delivery device for kinetic energy transferred by its velocity. A military .223 round is going to do a lot more damage than a .22 short, even though they are basically the same diameter, because the .223 has a much larger casing, more powder behind it and strikes with a lot more force.

Another way of thinking about it, is would you rather be hit by a .22 caliber long fired at 1,500fps fired from a gun, or a big .50 caliberbullet that is thrown at you by hand?

What's the difference? Velocity and therefore kinetic energy.

All the comparisons to knives, arrows, nails from a nail gun, even a tamping rod to the head as being any way similar to a bullet misses the basic physics of the hypersonic velocity bullets travel at.

Again, the ballistic gel profile of a .25. in brain-like ballistic gel

25ACP Winchester 50gr FMJ impacting ballistic gelatin (42,000 frame/sec!) - YouTube don't exactly like being "the gun guy" in this thread, but I will keep pointing this out.

:deadhorse:

I was guessing she taped the gun to her leg under her clothing?

 

[Dmacky]

The fact that Jodi moved out of her family home and moved in with a boyfriend at age 15 is very telling to me.

How would any mother handle that situation? I know my mother would have found me, yanked me by the hair and dragged me back home. I think her mother was doing everything she could do to discipline her and bring her up the right way. However, Jodi was not the youngest and was not getting any attention. She became a smart a$$ teenager and was harder to control than most children her age. Remember, it has been stated that she moved out of the family home because she and her mother did not see eye to eye on things. Geez, sounds like so many teenagers going through puberty.

Jodi's mother was the main parent trying to discipline the children and here lies the issue between them. Jodi resented her. Usually when you become an adult, you look back at your childhood and realize what you did to deserve the punishment. Usually you agree that your parents did the best they could do. Jodi never grew up to appreciate her mother. I don't want to hear about the "wooden spoon" story because I was spanked and hit much worse than she was. My mother did the best she could do trying to raise 6 children who could be out of control at times.

I DO have compassion (or is it sympathy) for Jodi's mother. She let her leave the home at 15 because she was tired of dealing with an out of control teenager.

I thought she was 15 when she went to Costa Rica as an exchange student, and 17 when she moved out? I could be wrong. I too have sympathy for her mother. I cannot imagine being in her shoes.

 

[Nosey Parker]

I had read that the media was trying to get information about how much witnesses and dt were getting paid.

The DT doesn't want that information out because it is detailed and there are things that they don't want anyone to know about. It could be prejudicial for the defense.

That is what I understand, not sure that is what it is though.

Kelly

Yes, this is the order I felt Martinez would like to address because it would show Samuels spent more hours with Arias than he testified to. That is only my speculation. :moo:

Looks like the media are after the billings too.

 

[momof7]

I have had the same thought about her moving out so young. Most parents would call the police and have the guy brought up on charges. They seem to have said, "eh, whatever, she's your problem now."

Or they though 'eh, she will be back'...nobody loves crazy like our mothers! No matter what we do, most mothers can't leave their babies blindly flailing in the wind. They knew she would have it her way and she would somehow make them ask her home when the relationship was over. She would make up some story of why she had to leave the relationship etc.

I would imagine they just took the time out when they could. Living with JA had to be exhausting.

Kelly

 

[LambChop]

I have had the same thought about her moving out so young. Most parents would call the police and have the guy brought up on charges. They seem to have said, "eh, whatever, she's your problem now."

She was 18 when she moved out, still a junior in high school when she dropped out. Unless I missed some testimony. Not sure where the 15 years is coming from other than I think she may have started to see Bobbi when she was 15. jmo

 

[MrsProsecutor]

I loved the way JM shredded the bogus PTSD diagnosis yesterday, especially the avoidance of conversations, memories, etc. I kept thinking about her police interrogation where she has "morbid curiosity" to see the bloody photos of Travis, AND asks how many times he was stabbed. Not avoidance, Dr.$$$. It really made him look bad that he had read and seen all the evidence we have and could still say with a straight face that it was his high and mighty professional opinion and he stands by it.

 

[scorpio24]

Will she be able to sell her artwork if convicted? I know she has some art for sale on Ebay...

If TA's family pursues a civil suit, I think they can extract the same kind of judgement Ron Goldman's family did: basically a lien on present and future "profits." It will be their best way of keeping her from continuing to slander Travis and, most of all, keep her from reaping benefits from her crime. :twocents:

 

[Schuby]

When my mom was terminal, she had a friend who sent her cards 3x a week for a year. We found them after she passed as she had kept them all. I'm off to purchase bunches for the family to send, and going to order online those that have elephants in them also. Also, I went online to look for and google "elephant" sympathy cards to send. One I just ordered, says the following.........well, never mind.......... gets too personal and makes me cry so early in the day. I'm going to have bunches for later also, as Katie shared with us the even when there is a guilty verdict, after the trial was the hardest for her.

So......due to Katie's sharing..... I plan to go into high gear with cards after that so they don't feel like it's "over".... it's not over as Katie explained....... that is when the REALLY bad and dark time hits... I have both Sam and Tanishia's surface addresses, so will send to both.

Anyway........just thought to share ... needed to share with those who will understand as for some reason this am.... I am sitting here right now bawling at my computer as I type this..

Great idea. A close friend of mine lost his son to suicide a couple years ago. In the days after everyone flooded his home and they kept asking me what they could do. Every time I said, "Come back in a month, two months, three....come back when the sudden shock has worn off and people's attention spans have moved on to other things."

 

[Novice Seeker]

I have much respect for defense attorneys. IMO they love the law and the constitution. It's not about if they're defending the guilty or an innocent. It's about the process. Everyone is entitled to a vigorous defense, everyone. The state must prove their case. beyond a reasonable doubt and if another scenario is plausible ... The state didn't prove its case. It's a tough job, I couldn't do it... But I have the upmost respect for those that do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Love of the law and constitution & right to a vigorous defense DOES NOT & SHOULD NOT give the DT permission to persecute the victim or present allegations made by the defendant as the truth. The rules and laws that prevented Jodi's past history of stalking and Fatal Attraction like behaviors from being admitted in the trial should apply for Travis and everyone else.

 

[BritsKate]

When my mom was terminal, she had a friend who sent her cards 3x a week for a year. We found them after she passed as she had kept them all. I'm off to purchase bunches for the family to send, and going to order online those that have elephants in them also. Also, I went online to look for and google "elephant" sympathy cards to send. One I just ordered, says the following.........well, never mind.......... gets too personal and makes me cry so early in the day. I'm going to have bunches for later also, as Katie shared with us the even when there is a guilty verdict, after the trial was the hardest for her.

So......due to Katie's sharing..... I plan to go into high gear with cards after that so they don't feel like it's "over".... it's not over as Katie explained....... that is when the REALLY bad and dark time hits... I have both Sam and Tanishia's surface addresses, so will send to both.

Anyway........just thought to share ... needed to share with those who will understand as for some reason this am.... I am sitting here right now bawling at my computer as I type this..

:hug: That's a beautiful thing to do, ATL, thank you for sharing it with us.

 

[JRS_JD2L]

Anyone know???

Only a guess, but it sounds like the media wants to release something and the DT wants it sealed.

 

[Schuby]

Or they though 'eh, she will be back'...nobody loves crazy like our mothers! No matter what we do, most mothers can't leave their babies blindly flailing in the wind. They knew she would have it her way and she would somehow make them ask her home when the relationship was over. She would make up some story of why she had to leave the relationship etc.

I would imagine they just took the time out when they could. Living with JA had to be exhausting.

Kelly

Agree, sorry, I wasn't trying to imply they were somehow negligent, just that they had probably been pushed to all human limits by her antics at that point.

 

[neesaki]

I am shaking my head at JA and JW dressing in the same colors. Could this be JW's idea or is it JA's. I also wonder what the jury thinks about it, could it be how silly they look, or could it be 'how stupid do they think we are' ?

 

[paperwing]

Knife first, forensically and logically, is more difficult for me to get to, I'm in the gun first camp, so would love to hear your thoughts, I just haven't heard enough up to now to get me from gun first.

I've been doing some research on head gunshot wounds, there are several stories of people moving around right after, not for long after to be sure but we only have 62 seconds we are talking about. The reason people have been able to move is consistently due to the part of the brain that is hit, and whether it is one or both sides of the brain.

First and foremost - **awesome** response, VALee... thank you so much.

Re the gun vs. knife first - I've laid out what I think may have happened (in detail) and if I can find it...

I can't explain Dr. Horn's testimony any better than he has, and I can't explain (psychologically, behaviourally) why the gun shot would be last.

I do know that legally - it doesn't matter - at least that is my understanding, given the judge's ruling as well as the AZSC's ruling when the DT argued (early on) that the sequence of injuries mattered per the DP - the judge ruled that regardless of sequence, the killing was cruel and and qualified as a DP charge. I believe (but don't quote me) that the AZSC ruled on the same argument... I may be wrong. BUT - the result is what matters. This is, and remains a DP case - and the sequence of injury does not matter.

Re: the wrestling - you said it best.

Re" the 62 seconds - (don't throw stuff, guys!) I think this is a weak point and I'm not sure why JM pegged himself into this timeline - UNLESS he knows something. Which, based on prior experience, I have to say, yep - he probably knows something.

He has yet to deliver his most crucial salvos, imv.

But personally - I can't say that Travis was dead within 62 seconds - or that the killing took 62 seconds. It looks that way, but many stab wounds could have been made after that last photo - I don't know. JA knows and she is aroused by the fact that she is the only one who knows... I'm already nauseous and this just puts me over the top.

Does it matter, essentially? Nah, I don't think so. Going on what I know so far, (yet I think JM has something even better in the wings - if not, he makes his case anyway) the clincher/s are:

The Tesoro and Wal-Mart reps. While JM impeached JA as best he could, either or both of these witnesses' testimony will say to the jury (bold, underline): JA - you sat barely feet away and you stone-face lied to us without skipping a beat.

Juries don't like that garbage, I imagine.

If they deem her testimony (as a whole) unusable - that cuts the defense argument to it's knees at best.

And then there is the trip: Who did she see/expect to see?

Matt (old boyfriend - briefly)
Darryl (old boyfriend - briefly/to borrow gas cans, minimum)
Paul guy (?) forget his name - borrowed $$$
John Dixon (never saw - pretended there was a gallery opportunity w/him)
Travis... for her entire 3000 mi trip - she spent the most time with Travis... Because Travis was the reason for the trip.
Ryan Burns - planned alibi.

Matt. Darryl. Travis. John. Ryan. Travis was her target. Period.

 

[Liebchenmutti]

Here's a weird dream for ya. I had this dream for several months if not a year. A few years ago.

In the dream; I was taking college courses and one of them was a math course. I looked at my schedule once but couldn't remember where the class was. So I stopped trying to find it and just skipped it for the whole semester. Then I found out where it was just before the final exam and I was torn about going or not going. It really creeped me out. In the middle of the dream I kept trying to find the classroom and couldn't and I was panicking. :waitasec:

Dr. Freud, paging Dr. Freud.

I have the same recurring dream! I'm at school & I hate it, and I have Calculus after lunch, but I get lost trying to find the right building. I decide to just leave & go home. I do this several times & then I find myself in class and hopelessly behind & find out I have an F.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN, SD?????:what:

 

[websurfer]

My main problem with JM is he fails to make some good, important arguments, and he also makes some bad arguments with his questioning (like that picture of Jodi's hand told us nothing about whether it was bent or not, or like that Jodi writing something assertive in her journal is an example of assertive behavior, especially when there are many better examples to use). He also sometimes focuses on points that aren't that important. But I still like him, he makes other arguments I wouldn't have thought of, and I do like his aggressiveness and scorn for witnesses like JA and RS who do have it coming. If I'm in the jury, I would appreciate that kind of righteous anger, like it's the sane reaction to have to the utter bs they're speaking.

When this Abuse expert is on the stand today..he really needs to CHILL
and not raise his voice..

 

[Donnareit]

The Defendant needed a protective order from Beth Karas? . . . . while she is in jail? . . . . .

Please someone explain!

:laugh:
It's to keep the DT billing underwraps