trial day 45: the defense continues its case in chief #137

[kscornfed]

Im assuming you are not buying Alyce's tripe and are just making hypothetical...?

However, in case not, curious...at what point in any of the evidence produced did it show Travis in RAGE ? I never saw any. I saw him angry (justifiably because he was being stalked and abused himself); however, rage? Nope. Never.

And nobody understands domestic violence? Really? I think everyone gets it, but chose to ignore the truth in this case. And I disagree with your therapist 20 years ago. I know plenty of people who live what is being described as double lives and don't have "anger" or "rage" issues......and what you are describing is most certainly NOT just associated to just men. That assessment by a therapist is just completely misleading. Every situation and person is different. Please add in women and then add in people with mental issues.

the defense has used all these words on purpose, even though they are in no way accurate: 'rage'. 'tirade'. 'mortal terror.' others i can't recall.

gross exaggerations to bolster a case they know is nonexistent for self defense and domestic abuse.

 

[gauntlet]

I was just reading about the certificate of authenticity that JA has put on art made after January 26 2013. Her site says:

"All pieces created after January 26, 2013 are authenticated with Jodi Arias’ right thumbprint. We will be happy to authenticate any pieces created before January 26, 2013. Certificates of authenticity will be issued upon request as soon as they become available. This is a project in itself with logistical obstacles due to the limited scope of Jodi’s present circumstances. DON’T GET RIPPED OFF! Many scam artists are attempting to sell art and other items by claiming they were created by or once belonged to Jodi. If you have any questions regarding the authenticity of any pieces not represented on this website, please contact the administrator of this group at [email protected] who is in regular communication with Jodi and can verify if the piece in question is authentic or a scam."

"Logical obstacles" :floorlaugh::floorlaugh: You couldn't make that up. Is that a translation of the fact she has no access to ink print unless she's charged for another crime?

 

[minor4th]

It's because nobody understands domestic violence. The Defense doesn't even understand their own case. Alyce tried to explain it from the stand but it went right over everyone's head.

Twenty years ago a therapist told me men express guilt as anger. It went right over my head. I had no idea what he was talking about.

But, that's the key. That is why domestic violence escalates. The more the man leads the double life, the more guilt he feels, the more guilt he feels, the more he acts it out as anger, the more he acts it out as anger, the more guilt he feels. IT'S LIKE A SNAKE EATING ITS TAIL.

That is why Alyce said on the stand--it is ok to feel anger, but it's what you do when you feel that emotion that is the problem. And, she pointed out that Travis anger, as demonstrated in the texts, was now over the top as RAGE, and not only that, but a rage which was not quickly abating.

There's a lot going on here, and nobody seems to be getting it, including the DT.

IMO

I disagree that it's because people don't understand DV. I think it's because people DO understand DV, and see that it didn't exist here.

And FWIW, I agree with Alyce that Travis did have anger and even rage, and that his texts were over the top and an inappropriate expression of anger. And if one were given no context for those texts, if one did not know of all that Jodi put Travis through before it got to that point -- I can see how someone like Alyce might quickly conclude that Travis was like so many abusive men she has worked with.

I agree with you that there is a lot going on here, but it is not in the defense's interest to bring light to all that was going on. I have mentioned before that I represent men who have been in abusive relationships -- and I've seen many men at the point where Travis was on May 26. What looks like anger and rage is more accurately an expression of extreme frustration and feeling trapped and hopeless, and at the same time helpless to extract oneself from the ties that bind. I can't tell you how many times I have seen women actually trying to provoke such a reaction and then using it against the guy, just like Jodi is doing. Those issues are so complex that I do not think they can adequately be explained in this trial -- but maybe through Juan's expert.

 

[atm9533]

Google it and Enter at your own risk....:blushing:

My firewall won't let me access it. I asked my 28 year old daughter via txt what it means and she replied 'OH GOD, I DON'T REALLY HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT TO YOU DO I'. So I guess I will remain clueless.

 

[Schuby]

Nothing so effectively makes me feel retarded like trying to do my taxes.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

BBM: exactly, she even prepared the cat.

I really want her ex boyfriends to testify if she kept the cat groomed while she was having sex with them.... She blames Travis for this also!!

And obviously she was already shaved, right? But, she wasn't going to see Travis, right? She was on her way to Utah, right? So, how is it she was shaving for Travis when, according to her, it was a last minute trip?

 

[YESorNO]

Good Day from Tennessee! It's a brisk morning compared to 80's Yesterday. I missed so much but did get caught up sorta with jury questions.
I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend.

Justice for Travis!!

Good morning to you, too. It's been raining here in NYS- computer gets screwy because of the rain.

I'm going out now to pick up some ciggy's and Chinese food- chicken with broccoli, fried rice, egg roll- to prepare for the trial this afternoon.

:seeya:

 

[katydid23]

Neither Laviolette nor any other witness, nor attorney in this case can use the word "murder" during testimony. That's because the word "murder" is a legal conclusion that cannot be made until all the evidence is in. It's the rules of evidence.

True, but ALV DID use the word murder once at least. It was a big OOPSIE on her part. It was while being questioned by JUan so she was nervous.

 

[molly333]

Im assuming you are not buying Alyce's tripe and are just making hypothetical...?

However, in case not, curious...at what point in any of the evidence produced did it show Travis in RAGE ? I never saw any. I saw him angry (justifiably because he was being stalked and abused himself); however, rage? Nope. Never.

And nobody understands domestic violence? Really? I think everyone gets it, but chose to ignore the truth in this case. And I disagree with your therapist 20 years ago. I know plenty of people who live what is being described as double lives and don't have "anger" or "rage" issues......and what you are describing is most certainly NOT just associated to just men. That assessment by a therapist is just completely misleading. Every situation and person is different. Please add in women and then add in people with mental issues.

Alyce's 'tripe'? Are you kidding me?

She has clearly explained the processes behind domestic violence. I say no one is getting it because everyone is saying things like 'tripe.'

Obviousy, a psychopath living a double life would not be bothered by emotion. But, a man with emotions would be. Alyce made it clear that when guilt turns to anger, then how the man deals with it has a lot to do with how he saw anger modeled in his family of origin, among other things.

It is most associated with men statistically for a few reasons. Men are not taught to process their emotions, and anger is a more acceptable emotion to men than guilt. And, men usually have the upper hand in the power differential.

As Alyce said, a power differential between two people is ok if the one with more power isn't an abuser.

IMO

 

[gauntlet]

In my experience, there's nothing church-going individuals love more than a "back-slider" that they can help reform! .

Snipped by me...

By all accounts, JA was more than happy to be part of any back sliding activities :great:

 

[grammieto5]

Hey evertone, Good morning Could someone plaese tell me the ages of Travis' siblings? Thanks

 

[Sleuth5]

I was just reading about the certificate of authenticity that JA has put on art made after January 26 2013. Her site says:

"All pieces created after January 26, 2013 are authenticated with Jodi Arias’ right thumbprint. We will be happy to authenticate any pieces created before January 26, 2013. Certificates of authenticity will be issued upon request as soon as they become available. This is a project in itself with logistical obstacles due to the limited scope of Jodi’s present circumstances. DON’T GET RIPPED OFF! Many scam artists are attempting to sell art and other items by claiming they were created by or once belonged to Jodi. If you have any questions regarding the authenticity of any pieces not represented on this website, please contact the administrator of this group at [email protected] who is in regular communication with Jodi and can verify if the piece in question is authentic or a scam."

"Logical obstacles" :floorlaugh::floorlaugh: You couldn't make that up. Is that a translation of the fact she has no access to ink print unless she's charged for another crime?

That's it. The death of Western Civilization.

 

[justsharing]

Iv'e said it before and I'll say it again. If I were on the jury I would focus on late May to mid July alone. None of this sex stuff matters. JA's past boyfriends don't matter. The only thing that matters is if she premeditated this, the day of the crime and what she did afterwards.
The DT wanted to dirty up the evidence with a bunch of nonsense but in the end does her story of how the killing happened make sense?

 

[prima.facie]

Does anyone actually believe that all (unmarried) practicing Mormans are celibate? I'm sure some are, but if the truth be known, the vast majority, particularly in 30 yr old group, are probably not. Neither are Baptists. Nor Methodists. Lutherans, Catholics or any other religion in the US. I can't believe that people think he would be tossed from the church or lose his job, because of this. Maybe get a talking to from his minister, but somebody needs to get real.
I'm afraid my workplace and possibly chuch would be empty if this was the case. And I also appreciate people keeping their sex life private.

I grew up in the church, literally. Im a pastor's kid. I do not believe sex outside of marriage is exclusive to any one religion. I believe individuals will do what they want regardless of whatever religious beliefs they may hold.

I do not think him being Morman has anything to do with anything in any of this...

IMO.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I haven't read overnight discussion other than the Jury Question Poll and have a few things to do before the trial starts today. I just want to mention some of the problems that I find with ALV's answers to the jury questions and, generally, issues that I've had all along with ALV's testimony.

ALV admitted that she doesn't do emails, texting, etc. yet continues to suggest that she can glean all she needs to know about a person by reading same and/or the collaborative writings of others about Jodi and Travis. Instant communication via internet, mobile devices, cell phones, etc. has become a language of its own and in order to understand the subtle nuances involved, ALV needs to familiarize herself with it before she makes broad statements as if she is an expert on communication in the new millennium.

I am offended by ALV's arrogance in suggesting that she knows what people are thinking, feeling, and their motivation through their emails and other messaging formats. She wants to pass herself off as a literary scholar who knows instinctively what is meant by anyone's written word. Some of the greatest literary scholars often disagree on interpretations of authors' works. This doesn't mean that one critic is right and the other is wrong. It simply means that they interpret the written word differently based on their knowledge of the author and the period during which the work was written.

I'll be back when the trial starts. Looking forward to continued questions from this awesome jury.

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

yes, and she even went so far as to try and introduce them.....LOL

Her behavior on the stand is eerily like Jodi's. Remember when Jodi was testifying, she gave a shout out to her aunt as if they were on The Price is Right.

*puzzled*

 

[Novice Seeker]

Yes, she probably learned from the books given to her by Samuels and probably her attorneys. I do think Alyce was duped.

That's what baffles me about these two pseudo experts. Samuels and ALV were hired to do an evaluation on Jodi's behavior/personality. Providing Jodi magazines and books on the very subjects they were going to be evaluating her on was akin to providing her a cheat sheet of what qualifications Jodi needed to provide in order for these experts to testify to the amnesia and DV.

RS and ALV's reports should have been invalidated and been prevented from testifying in court.

What baffles my mind is that neither one of these experts recognize the inappropriateness of what they did.:banghead:

 

[kscornfed]

I so wish a juror had asked about that too! That's very atypical a victim coming out of an abusive relationship.

An extreme example is a woman I knew before I moved that couldn't even allow females to hug her because it provoked an immediate anxiety attack but many victims have difficulty initially with same-gendered peeps as their abusers unless they know them well, much less trusting them. Going alone on a camping trip with 6 guys you don't know well, after 'seeing what men could do', makes absolutely not a lick of any kind of logical sense to me.

she couldn't even remember their NAMES. who goes camping with men they don't even know? (there was no camping trip. total lie.)

and what abused woman, right after shooting her abusive lover through the head, runs out and buys a new gun just weeks later? and says she 'wanted to be a responsible gun owner?' whaaaa.....??!!?? if she was so horrified by what she'd done (as ALV claims), i would think she'd never want to hold another gun in her life, let alone buy one.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Here's a gem from Arias' art selling website:

About Me

“Since I was a child, I’ve been drawn to art. I have been privileged to study under the guidance of two very gifted teachers. One, I remember only as Mr. B, the art teacher at Orcutt Junior High School, who I’m sure has long since retired. He granted me creative freedom to veer from the linear syllabus and follow my own inclinations. Richard Rengal, my high school art teacher and a true master of fine art, instilled me with the confidence in my ability that I would carry into the future and do still today. It is in large part due to his ceaseless belief in my skill that I have continued my artistic pursuits years after I last walked out of his classroom.”

When you have art class in junior & senior high school, it's called "studying under the guidance of ... very gifted teachers...[one] a true master of fine art...[who] has ceaseless belief in [her] skill?" :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
:silly::silly:

No, really. This girl is too much.

 

[ClosArgs]

I was just reading about the certificate of authenticity that JA has put on art made after January 26 2013. Her site says:

"All pieces created after January 26, 2013 are authenticated with Jodi Arias’ right thumbprint. We will be happy to authenticate any pieces created before January 26, 2013. Certificates of authenticity will be issued upon request as soon as they become available. This is a project in itself with logistical obstacles due to the limited scope of Jodi’s present circumstances. DON’T GET RIPPED OFF! Many scam artists are attempting to sell art and other items by claiming they were created by or once belonged to Jodi. If you have any questions regarding the authenticity of any pieces not represented on this website, please contact the administrator of this group at [email protected] who is in regular communication with Jodi and can verify if the piece in question is authentic or a scam."

"Logical obstacles" :floorlaugh::floorlaugh: You couldn't make that up. Is that a translation of the fact she has no access to ink print unless she's charged for another crime?

Thanks Gauntlet, I just snorted my coffee across my screen! :floorlaugh: