Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[katydid23]

I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up but ..

is it possible that she was hearing him screaming ? .. she wasn't very close to begin with .. approximately 344 feet away with other houses in between ? .. it's not inconceivable that a guy could sound like a woman when screaming .. some definitely do

let's say it was Oscar screaming, blood curdling screams. So he screamed in terror, then shot 4 times? Does that make any sense?

If he was afraid that an intruder was hiding in the bathroom, why would Oscar scream in terror at the top of his lungs before shooting?

AND IF he had been screaming, then wouldnt his gf had answered him from the bathroom, to see what his problem was? And then he would bot have shot her, would he?

 

[Irisha]

Court is in session 10am Pretoria time (that's 7 hours ahead of EST) so 3am your time Irisha.



Just a tad!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...782324-a2fa-11e3-b865-38b254d92063_story.html

Thanks for the answer Mountain Misst. After a yr. of following articles, thinking about this case. I cannot come up with a logical reason why he felt so paranoid. He lived in a heavily secure gated community, owned a gun, legs or no legs he was very physically fit. Hearing a noise could have been anything. I read/seen a pic he had 2 dogs, how come did he not think it wasn't the dogs making the noise? If he was so afraid of the crime in SA why leave a ladder against the house with a open window? Wasn't the balcony door left open? Why didn't he tell his g/f to hide under the bed or in a closet quietly? Check to see if she got up? Things that make me think he's a:liar:IMO

 

[Feynman]

My thoughts on the trial, briefly: Burger was a strong witness.

Roux: I thought he was very good. I don't understand the comments about rudeness, given the circumstances his client is in.

Nel: Disappointing. Bit of a dud.

 

[Lola68]

The one part of Burger's testimony that did go in OP's favor was when she was describing hearing both a man and woman screaming "help." This was before any shots were fired, if I'm not mistaken. To me one could infer that OP thought something was going on (otherwise, why scream "help"?). I was expecting this witness to say she heard yelling (like a fight). That's not quite what she said at all.

This is the part I find really intriguing. Why is a prosecution witness claiming that OP shouted help? If it weren't for also hearing a woman's screams (assuming that even if OP 'screams like a women' the witness would be able to differentiate between 2 different voices), this would support the defence's argument that OP genuinely thought it was a break in. To me this suggests that the prosecution have a lot of confidence in this witness IMO

 

[jilly]

On the contrary, I think she's being very clever. From what I've read the judge is very experienced, respected and particularly supportive of women's rights. I think she allowed Roux to continue with his aggressive questioning to highlight the extreme measures the defence are taking, and also to mitigate against potential criticism that she is biased in favour of the prosecution (I.e. vulnerable female) so more likely to take a hard line against OP. IMHO

I'm hoping the Judge will at least ask Roux (in chambers) to tone it down a little.

 

[katydid23]

This is the part I find really intriguing. Why is a prosecution witness claiming that OP shouted help? If it weren't for also hearing a woman's screams (assuming that even if OP 'screams like a women' the witness would be able to differentiate between 2 different voices), this would support the defence's argument that OP genuinely thought it was a break in. To me this suggests that the prosecution have a lot of confidence in this witness IMO

If Oscar was screaming HELP out loud before the shooting, then he cannot claim that Reeva was inside the bathroom and didnt know there was a problem. His story right now is she was using the bathroom and he mistakenly thought she was an intruder and shot through the door.

But if he is now claiming that he was screaming in a loud, high pitched blood curdling manner, BEFORE shooting, then wouldn't Reeva have called out to him from the bathroom and asked what was wrong?

 

[Irisha]

This is the part I find really intriguing. Why is a prosecution witness claiming that OP shouted help? If it weren't for also hearing a woman's screams (assuming that even if OP 'screams like a women' the witness would be able to differentiate between 2 different voices), this would support the defence's argument that OP genuinely thought it was a break in. To me this suggests that the prosecution have a lot of confidence in this witness IMO

Was he screaming help as he carried her downstairs?

 

[Interested Bystander]

do we have confirmation on this ? ..

I thought 344 was a good little distance with respect to what you can credibly hear .. but 580 would really put it out there .. not sure you can be completely sure of what you heard from that far especially given that there are also structures in that same path from her house to his house

The witness stated that during her testimony that she had line of sight from her balcony to OP's house and that there was, at the time of the murder, only one flat roofed house between hers and OP's. She also said there were a few thin poplar trees. I am sure the forensic police would have carried out tests to ascertain whether she could hear from that distance. It would be futile to allow her to testify if it could be proved that it would be doubtful if she could have heard to commotion. In the still of the night, particularly in a sparsely populated area, with no industrial noise in the vicinity, it must be very likely that she heard something. I am sure we will hear from the weather people that the wind was in the right direction to carry the sound. That would make an enormous difference to how much could be heard.

Here is a short physics lesson for you - lol. Apparently it is possible to hear, in certain circumstances people talking half a mile (800 metres away).

http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/refract/refract.html

 

[sorrell skye]

let's say it was Oscar screaming, blood curdling screams. So he screamed in terror, then shot 4 times? Does that make any sense?

If he was afraid that an intruder was hiding in the bathroom, why would Oscar scream in terror at the top of his lungs before shooting?

AND IF he had been screaming, then wouldnt his gf had answered him from the bathroom, to see what his problem was? And then he would bot have shot her, would he?

Roux wants the Judge to believe the screams came after OP realized there was no intruder, and that he had shot Reeva by mistake.

He's trying to discount Ms. Burger's testimony by painting a different scenario. According to Roux: The gunshots occurred before Ms. Burger & her husband were awakened by the screaming. The "woman's" voice Ms. Burger heard was not Reeva screaming in terror, but Oscar because he sounds like a woman when he screams. Ms. Burger mistook the sound of the cricket bat bashing in the toilet door for the sound of 4 gunshots, because OP hit the door HARD with the cricket bat and when one hits a door HARD with a cricket bat it sounds identical to a gunshot.

Try as he might, though, Roux has thus far not been able to persuade Ms. Burger that she was mistaken. She stood her ground about what she heard and when she heard it. I believe her.

 

[seattlechiquita]

If Oscar was screaming HELP out loud before the shooting, then he cannot claim that Reeva was inside the bathroom and didnt know there was a problem. His story right now is she was using the bathroom and he mistakenly thought she was an intruder and shot through the door.

But if he is now claiming that he was screaming in a loud, high pitched blood curdling manner, BEFORE shooting, then wouldn't Reeva have called out to him from the bathroom and asked what was wrong?

And, wouldn't he have recognized his beloved girlfriend's screams instead of 'confusing' them with an intruder's?????

His fairy tale is coming apart one lie at a time.

 

[Lyra500]

This is the part I find really intriguing. Why is a prosecution witness claiming that OP shouted help? If it weren't for also hearing a woman's screams (assuming that even if OP 'screams like a women' the witness would be able to differentiate between 2 different voices), this would support the defence's argument that OP genuinely thought it was a break in. To me this suggests that the prosecution have a lot of confidence in this witness IMO

Except that if Reeva was screaming BEFORE the gunshots then it totally trashes his claim that he didn't realise who he was shooting. His first sworn affidavit made absolutely no mention of hearing anyone (male or female) screaming before he shot through the door and the witness was quite clear that she heard TWO voices, not one.

 

[gracielee]

And, wouldn't he have recognized his beloved girlfriend's screams instead of 'confusing' them with an intruder's?????

His fairy tale is coming apart one lie at a time.

:seeya: So we meet again. OP is so guilty. I've heard this is a strict judge, let's hope so. One can hear a lot in the dead of night. And gunshots don't sound like banging a door down. I hear gunshots often out here in the country.

 

[katydid23]

Roux wants the Judge to believe the screams came after OP realized there was no intruder, and that he had shot Reeva by mistake.

He's trying to discount Ms. Burger's testimony by painting a different scenario. According to Roux: The gunshots occurred before Ms. Burger & her husband were awakened by the screaming. The "woman's" voice Ms. Burger heard was not Reeva screaming in terror, but Oscar because he sounds like a woman when he screams. Ms. Burger mistook the sound of the cricket bat bashing in the toilet door for the sound of 4 gunshots, because OP hit the door HARD with the cricket bat and when one hits a door HARD with a cricket bat it sounds identical to a gunshot.

Try as he might, though, Roux has thus far not been able to persuade Ms. Burger that she was mistaken. She stood her ground about what she heard and when she heard it. I believe her.

Oh Good Lord. I hope they aren't able to sell that load of rubbish to My Lady.

 

[Lola68]

Was he screaming help as he carried her downstairs?

That could make sense - but witness recalls a woman screaming as well as a man (OP mentions no sound by RS before/after shooting) and that the screams occurred before the gun shots...

 

[Interested Bystander]

Interested Bystander - you mentioned OP "hanging" himself under cross examination. Do we know if he's taking the stand? I assumed (don't know why) that he wouldn't be saying anything. With all the discrepancies in his story, it would be madness if his defence team let him utter a single word!

No, not sure yet. He is looking pretty arrogant at the moment and he may well feel he can but by the time the PT have finished their evidence he may well be advised not to.

 

[Pisto_lius]

OP' changed statement:

1. "During the early hours of the morning I brought two fans in from the balcony," Mr Pistorius said in his statement.

2. "I had shortly before spoken to Reeva who was in bed beside me.

"Unbeknown to me, Reeva must have gone to the toilet in the bathroom at the time I brought in the fans, closed the sliding doors and drew the blinds and the curtains.

3. "I heard the bathroom window sliding open, I believed that an intruder or intruders had entered the bathroom through the bathroom window which was not fitted with burglar bars.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26417240

I'm curious to see how the defense will explain these changes of mind....
.
.

 

[Mountain Misst]

OP' changed statement:

I'm curious to see how the defense will explain these changes of mind...

Note to self: Was the bathroom window catch checked for fingerprints - bloody or otherwise?

 

[whiterum]

So OP fired four shots through the bathroom door and Roux is implying that what the witness heard were four bangs of the bat on the door. So is he suggesting that the 4 shots were fired while the witness was asleep then she awakes hearing screaming and coincidentally hears the same number of bangs of the bat as there were actual shots through the door, is this guy for real !!

 

[katydid23]

So if he had just spoken to Reeva, right before he brought in the fans, then he knew she was awake. And if he knew she was awake, why would he assume the noise in the bathroom was an intruder, and not Reeva?

And if he truly believed there was an intruder in the home, wouldn't he warn his girlfriend to run away while he confronted them with a weapon?

 

[aa9511]

This is the part I find really intriguing. Why is a prosecution witness claiming that OP shouted help? If it weren't for also hearing a woman's screams (assuming that even if OP 'screams like a women' the witness would be able to differentiate between 2 different voices), this would support the defence's argument that OP genuinely thought it was a break in. To me this suggests that the prosecution have a lot of confidence in this witness IMO

I just heard briefly a summary of the witness on the news. I also can't understand why she heard a male screaming....on the news it said she said "a male screaming for help" (in addition to the woman's screams). So that was kind of odd.

I don't quite understand the reason OP would scream (for help) if he wanted to hurt her. He would not want to make extra noise and draw attention to the house. Or, he would start screaming a little bit later after he had "set the scene" and was ready to call someone.

His story does sound VERY suspicious to me. I am leaning more towards him being guilty than innocent. However, I also have questions regarding why he was screaming for help as the witness stated she heard.