Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[sorrell skye]

WAT feed back now.

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-stream/

 

[shane13]

You can find live feed at youtube

 

[Trooper]

Roux wants Charl to agree that he heard a cricket bat and not gun fire.. Charl is not having a bar of it.. he heard what he heard, and as an owner of weaponry and an occasional shooter, he knows whereof he speaks.. .

Roux says,, it has to be the cricket bat.. no, says charl. he knows nothing about how the bat was handled.. imagining it to be handled like an axe.. he knows the sound of axe use, too as well as cricket bat striking.. gunfire, cricket bat, axe.. Charl , like most people in South Africa would know are all entirely different, and he knows what he heard.. he knows the dull thud of a bat. the splintering sound of an axe, not knowing what process Oscar used the bat as, he assumes it would be in a chopping action, a reasonable assumption, but he doesn't know, what he is stating is screams, then gunfire.

 

[atthelake]

mylady, what sense do you use to count :floorlaugh:

 

[sorrell skye]

Roux clearly refuses to accept any answer the witness provides, whether Mr. Johnson recalls from memory or from his notes.

 

[Trooper]

this is very very dangerous to Roux and his client.. it is as dangerous as Mrs Burgers testimony.. Roux , I think is beginning to believe that he cant shake Charl either.. no sign of Charl throwing in the towel, or falling into a jumbled heap and throwing his shoe at Roux.. nothing at all. without fail, Charl addresses the judge in strict control of his testimony as to what he heard..


Now.. Roux is cross about the notes that he held up the court for 4 hours yesterday.. I don't think he expected Charl to produce them.. but here they are, and these notes replicate in all particulars what his first statement was.. and what it is today.. Roux just cant budge him, and Charl isn't budging from what he heard, no matter how many different scenarious Roux is putting forward..

 

[Trooper]

the only answer Roux wants is cricket bat, and no female screaming..thats the only thing that will get Oscar off.. on a murder charge.

now roux wants to know if charl knows Oscar.. meaning, he may not know that Oscar can scream like a female.. well. none of us know that. . we need to get Oscar up on the stand and scream for us... I wonder if he has screamed like that for Roux??

 

[sorrell skye]

Roux just caught himself.

He almost said "shots" then stopped himself and said "what you call shots".

I don't believe for a minute that he believes the rubbish he's peddling. But he's doing his job by trying to create confusion and doubt as to what the witness heard.

 

[shane13]

When Johnson succinctly describes the woman, then the man shouting "Help", it sure seems to fit Oscar mocking Reeva in her last terrrifying seconds.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Well done Mr Johnson. He stopped Roux in his tracks with his answer that the timing of swinging the bat could not possibly be the timing of the shots he heard. No more reference from Roux that the sounds were the bat hitting the door.

 

[Trooper]

Roux wants it to be Oscar screaming.. he asks ,, he puts it to Charl. couldn't it have been Oscar screaming?? and implying that Charl hasn't heard enough screaming in his life to be able to distinguish..

Roux asks charl. is it possible he heard a cricket bat?? nope says charl. definitely not a cricket bat.

roux asks.. did you hear a male voice screaming... nope, says charl..

 

[atthelake]

the only answer Roux wants is cricket bat, and no female screaming..thats the only thing that will get Oscar off.. on a murder charge.

now roux wants to know if charl knows Oscar.. meaning, he may not know that Oscar can scream like a female.. well. none of us know that. . we need to get Oscar up on the stand and scream for us... I wonder if he has screamed like that for Roux??

Oh Gawd, I'm blaming YOU for bringing Jodi Arias /Travis "screaming like a girl" back to my thoughts :doh:

 

[whiterum]

Roux wants Charl to agree that he heard a cricket bat and not gun fire.. Charl is not having a bar of it.. he heard what he heard, and as an owner of weaponry and an occasional shooter, he knows whereof he speaks.. .

Roux says,, it has to be the cricket bat.. no, says charl. he knows nothing about how the bat was handled.. imagining it to be handled like an axe.. he knows the sound of axe use, too as well as cricket bat striking.. gunfire, cricket bat, axe.. Charl , like most people in South Africa would know are all entirely different, and he knows what he heard.. he knows the dull thud of a bat. the splintering sound of an axe, not knowing what process Oscar used the bat as, he assumes it would be in a chopping action, a reasonable assumption, but he doesn't know, what he is stating is screams, then gunfire.

Oh dear , how many times must the witness repeat that he heard gunshots and not a cricket bat. Move on Roux you are getting desperate, unless he gets out the thumb screws or beats the answer he wants from him with a cricket bat he may give up the ghost !!

 

[minor4th]

Well done Mr Johnson. He stopped Roux in his tracks with his answer that the timing of swinging the bat could not possibly be the timing of the shots he heard. No more reference from Roux that the sounds were the bat hitting the door.

except that he wasn't counting the shots so it's hard to imagine he can now accurately tell how close or far apart the shots were - in fact yesterday he said he could NOT recall

 

[Trooper]

if there were shots,,//??? Roux question.. well.it isn't a matter of IF there were shots..in Roux scenario apparently , there were no shots at all.

Charl is explaining that he and his wife lived on a game park.. . for some years ..they heard wild animals, jackals, hyenas, calling from a long distance, they became somewhat experienced in the measure of distance of calls.. they can distinguish many calls.. including cries from a woman, or a man.

 

[shane13]

Now Roux again saying the bathroom window was closed, when as I have detailed OP's Bail Affidavit says the window was open, and was the very reason for his fearing that an intruder had entered, and was in the loo, and that was the reason he had to shoot into it.

Why does not Nel object to this?

 

[atthelake]

except that he wasn't counting the shots so it's hard to imagine he can now accurately tell how close or far apart the shots were - in fact yesterday he said he could NOT recall

Respectfully disagree minor as easy for me to imagine. I've heard succession of gunshots many times in my life, and could not have told you how MANY were in succession most of the time if you were to question me following such. Its the mere fact that they are gunshots, and how rapid they were that would be top of mind for me also in a recollection.

:moo:

 

[minor4th]

Now Roux again saying the bathroom window was closed, when as I have detailed OP's Bail Affidavit says the window was open, and was the very reason for his fearing that an intruder had entered, and was in the loo, and that was the reason he had to shoot into it.

Why does not Nel object to this?

The bathroom window was open, but the small window in the toilet room was closed. There's a diagram around somewhere depicting it. I found this confusing also until I found that diagram

 

[Trooper]

don't have to count the shots to have a fair idea of the distance the firing is coming from.. and the voice. .. my perception is, Charl heard the shots and the residual echo and in the interests of accuracy is sticking to 5 or six shots BUT CERTAINLY AT LEAST FOUR, .which all agree was the number fired.. He's the shooter in the family , I gathered.. Mrs didn't testify she was a gun owner, and user, so I presume Mrs was gripped by the number of shots, and Mr was gripped by the area and distance they were coming from , the same as the screaming, Different inherent interests in gunfire, which may have been a result of their time living in a game park!!

 

[Really?]

The bathroom window was open, but the small window in the toilet room was closed. There's a diagram around somewhere depicting it. I found this confusing also until I found that diagram

maybe that would make her screams echo louder......? I dunno.