Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[shane13]

why would a bloke with a machine gun aimed thru a window, a baseball bat, ( and a cricket bat as we now know) and a pistol under his pillow, go to sleep with the glass doors open onto a balcony, the blinds open, and one, or since its been changed now, 2 fans propped up in full view outside?? why have fans outside?

why would a thief squeeze thru a bathroom window, when big glass doors are conveniently open from the balcony?? not much to steal from a bathroom, is there?? soap?? shaving gear?? wouldn't the goodies be in the bedroom?

If you refer to OP re machine gun, MSM got that wrong.
OP had applied for licenses for more guns, inlcuding machine gun, but they were not (yet) granted. He only had the 9mm semi.

 

[zwiebel]

Sorry, just got here. Is it tea time at court?

 

[Trooper]

I merely refer you to Number 3 statement of the diagram. Mr Pistorius claimed he dragged himself to the bathroom , screaming at the intruder to get out..

Odd , isn't it?? fast and speedy on the stumps, yet chooses to drag himself along under a claimed impression of deep fear of an intruder.

 

[BritsKate]

Um. Okay....

09.21 This from a Johannesburg reporter. Pretty odd thing to do:
#OscarPistorius Seems like an advocate colleague of Roux's has brought his kids in to meet Pistorius.
— Charl du Plessis (@CharlduPlessc) March 6, 2014

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...671489/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial-live.html

 

[whiterum]

maybe that would make her screams echo louder......? I dunno.

Also, Roux is making an assumption himself that the window in the toilet cubicle was definitely closed when RS was shot to death in that cubicle. How could Roux or anyone know for sure that the window had not been closed by OP after shooting RS and before police arrived to examine the crime scene.

 

[MeeBee]

Um. Okay....


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...671489/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial-live.html

Odd...

 

[sorrell skye]

Sorry, just got here. Is it tea time at court?

Yes, but it's last call for happy hour at my house. Glass of wine, anyone?

 

[shane13]

yes...indeedy... but.. if you read that correctly, you will see that this is what Oscar says he did... he says.. he dragged himself to the bathroom.. Oscar himself says that's what he did..and logically, he should read his own bio, I agree.. On that night, he says.. his skill on his stumps, and his speed notwithstanding.. he dragged himself along to the bathroom.

I just re-read his Bail Afidavit. No 'dragged' in there. Rather the opposite. He implies walking on his stumps and carrying the fan back in. He even says he "rushed back' into the bedroom once he realized...
I did not see any "dragged", nor did my search function.
If you have something there please post.

 

[Really?]

Sorry, just got here. Is it tea time at court?

HaHa....I was just going to ask "where is Zwiebel" ?

 

[Interested Bystander]

except that he wasn't counting the shots so it's hard to imagine he can now accurately tell how close or far apart the shots were - in fact yesterday he said he could NOT recall

The timing has already been reproduced in court by a witness who was asked to use the word bang to describe the timing of the shots. Quite clearly this was stated as bang ......bang.bang.bang. This covered roughly 3-4 seconds at most. I ran the comment against a stopwatch and, if anything there was at most 3 seconds between the first and the last bang, as described by the witness.

It would take a big backswing to provide enough force to break a hardwood door and, IMO, at least three seconds to complete the back swing, play the stroke, then follow through and then prepare for the next swing. This timing would be at complete variance with the witnesses statement of four shots one, then three in quick succession.

To make it easier to understand please picture a cricketer at his wicket preparing to hit the oncoming ball for six. You will appreciate then, I am sure just how long it takes to set up a powerful strike. There is the back swing, there is the forward swing and striking of the ball and then there is the follow through due to the momentum of the stroke. Imagine if there were a further three balls delivered immediately, one after the other. It would be impossible for the batsman to recover from his first stroke and follow through to take this ball and hit it for six (I use that analogy because there would have had to be very powerful strokes to break down a hardwood door in 4 strokes) let alone hit another three balls with a gap of less than a second between.

I am not speaking of Johnson's testimony.

Whilst I am here, the 4 shots, delivered with timing stated by the witness, suggests intent, ie one shot, then a gap and three further shots in rapid succession. IMO having shot Reeva once, t was important to OP that he silenced Reeva. Had she survived after the first shot and been able to testify as to what happened his life would be in ruins. Killing her enabled him to make up a storyline that he thought he would get away with.


I should point out that OPs swing was not necessary that of a batsman at the crease, it may well have been an overhead strike but the same criteria apply, ie set up the strike, make the strike, a degree of follow through (though this would be diminished as the strike would end on the door and then the preparation to strike again.

 

[Trooper]

are the girlfriends,, the two ex-es of Oscar who are on the list for today inclined to collaborate??? the telegraph reports they were seen having coffee together... poor little girls.. I bet they never in their wildest imaginings thought they would be hauled into this arena..

 

[sorrell skye]

I merely refer you to Number 3 statement of the diagram. Mr Pistorius claimed he dragged himself to the bathroom , screaming at the intruder to get out..

Odd , isn't it?? fast and speedy on the stumps, yet chooses to drag himself along under a claimed impression of deep fear of an intruder.

The captions on the diagram aren't the words OP used in his affidavit, though. OP didn't use the word dragged. Those are the words of the artist/journalist who created the diagram.

In the interests of maintaining factual integrity, here is a link to OP's affidavit, for reference:

http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/2013/02/19/copy-of-oscar-pistorius-affidavit-click-to-read/

 

[Trooper]

I just re-read his Bail Afidavit. No 'dragged' in there. Rather the opposite. He implies walking on his stumps and carrying the fan back in. He even says he "rushed back' into the bedroom once he realized...
I did not see any "dragged", nor did my search function.
If you have something there please post.

I refer you to the captions embedded in the diagram.. clearly, if you follow it in sequential order.. that is.. #1 , #2, etc.. at #3 , you will see that Mr Pistorius claimed he dragged himself to the bathroom, while screaming at the intruder to get out.. it was the diagrammatic website you were referring to originally. I refer to the same one.

 

[MeeBee]

except that he wasn't counting the shots so it's hard to imagine he can now accurately tell how close or far apart the shots were - in fact yesterday he said he could NOT recall[/QUOTE

The timing has already been reproduced in court by a witness who was asked to use the word bang to describe the timing of the shots. Quite clearly this was stated as bang ......bang.bang.bang. This covered roughly 3-4 seconds at most. I ran the comment against a stopwatch and, if anything there was at most 3 seconds between the first and the last bang, as described by the witness.

It would take a big backswing to provide enough force to break a hardwood door and, IMO, at least three seconds to complete the back swing, play the stroke, then follow through and then prepare for the next swing. This timing would be at complete variance with the witnesses statement of four shots one, then three in quick succession.

To make it easier to understand please picture a cricketer at his wicket preparing to hit the oncoming ball for six. You will appreciate then, I am sure just how long it takes to set up a powerful strike. There is the back swing, there is the forward swing and striking of the ball and then there is the follow through due to the momentum of the stroke. Imagine if there were a further three balls delivered immediately, one after the other. It would be impossible for the batsman to recover from his first stroke and follow through to take this ball and hit it for six (I use that analogy because there would have had to be very powerful strokes to break down a hardwood door in 4 strokes) let alone hit another three balls with a gap of less than a second between.

I am not speaking of Johnson's testimony.

Whilst I am here, the 4 shots, delivered with timing stated by the witness, suggests intent, ie one shot, then a gap and three further shots in rapid succession. IMO having shot Reeva once, t was important to OP that he silenced Reeva. Had she survived after the first shot and been able to testify as to what happened his life would be in ruins. Killing her enabled him to make up a storyline that he thought he would get away with.

One would think that if there was a gap between the first shots and the last three, Reeva would have screamed after the first one alerting Oscar to stop shooting. Even if somehow the witnesses are mistaken and they actually heard the aftermath as Oscar was breaking down the door, this little bit of logic still goes against his version of events. How could he not know until after the shooting that Reeva was in the bathroom and not in bed? Was she really silent as he was shooting her? Makes no sense.

 

[shane13]

No "dragging."

Here is what OP's bail Affidavit said. {He does not drag himself while onhis stumps. )

"I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps.

I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on. I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.

I noticed that the bathroom window was open...."
BBM

 

[zwiebel]

'...during a rugby match, a player from the opposite team tackled
him. "His legs came off in the boy's arms...but he carried on running over the line. I think the other kid still has nightmares"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2193556/Oscar-Pistorius-story--impossible.html

 

[shane13]

To my recollection, Mr. Johnson was on the balcony while Ms. Burger remained in bed. (I was under the impression their balcony is adjacent to their bedroom though, since they were speaking to one another as well. I don't recall if either testified to that.)

Thank you so much for this.

I thought it wss something like this, and they were not right next to each other.
Makes a difference re wave physics.

 

[zwiebel]

They're back...

 

[zwiebel]

Another media warning, someone used a flash in court.

 

[Trooper]

No "dragging."

Here is what OP's bail Affidavit said. {He does not drag himself while onhis stumps. )

"I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps.

I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on. I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.

I noticed that the bathroom window was open...."
BBM

thanks shane... I searched for it, finally found it in the Guardian, after a lot of jiggling.. I'll accept that's what he said in his statement.. but I am going to put it in with the one, or two fans for the moment.. * nudge*