Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[Trooper]

maybe he went upstairs to ring his lawyer, while Dr Stipp was still trying to hopelessly revive Reeva

 

[Trooper]

well. you got to get onto your lawyer pretty niftily.. you have a dead body of a girlfriend, shot to hell in your hallway.. makes sense to me.

 

[Stromm]

Couple of minor observations. (Thanks ever so for generous comments about some other stuff I said, by the way).

The musicianly sense of gunshot rhythm claimed on behalf of Michelle Burger might sound a bit precious, but I'm sure many of us will instinctively understand it. Although I'm not a musician, if I'm in a room where a clock is chiming the hour, and I've paid it no attention so far but I suddenly become actively conscious of it late on in the chimes, I can glance at the clock and immediately know how many chimes are still to come. I certainly wouldn't call it a talent! But I think there is an innate rhythmic auditory memory that some people have - which might seem improbable to those who don't possess it. So even though a person's perception might be expected to be a bit hazy in the moments after being woken up, if they feel that they know they heard exactly four gunshots (or whatever), there's a good chance they're right. I think it's the sort of thing which bypasses the conscious intellect, whilst still registering.

I don't fancy the cricket bat/gunshot confusion at all, for reasons of sound (regardless of whether they're sound reasons). However, if you do think there could be something in it, I'd say don't dismiss the theory simply because it's impossible to make repeated swings of a bat with the required rapidity. It's true that a cricket bat is quite a weighty object (about 3 pounds), and rapid swinging or chopping motions would be very difficult to achieve. But if I was trying to break a door down with a bat, I'd grip it in much the same way as a canoeist grips a paddle in that half-kneeling stance they adopt. So I'd be pummelling away at the door, with the bat at shoulder level and oscillating longitudinally. That way I'd have a better chance of concentrating the damage done onto the same part of the door, rather than just distributing gashes all over it. If you have strong wrists (as OP probably does) you could easily administer three powerful strikes per second that way.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Re: How far sound carries

I live in a location situated at the top of a hill. When I sit outside on my back deck in the evening during the summertime there are times (not all the time, but quite a few times) when I can hear neighbors out in their yard interacting with their kids. Their house is at least 700-800 ft. from mine.

In addition, I have a friend who lives near the edge of a cliff located about 500-600 ft. above the Allegheny River. Again during the summertime, and at night when things are quiet, we can sit on her deck and hear people talking who are on boats down on the river.

It is really weird how sound carries. When this happens it is always fairly hot outside and there is no breeze at all. Plus it is usually at 9 or 10 at night, when there is not much traffic on roads.

And again, this does not happen all the time. I have no idea what combination of environmental events allows it to happen, but I can guarantee it does happen.

 

[atthelake]

Roux is 0 for 3 in trying to show the court that the screams were only AFTER the shots, in an attempt to make his case that it was OP screaming after the shots - as any woman screaming before the shots/during the shots shows that he continued to shoot knowing it was her behind the door.

 

[zwiebel]

I cant recall what profession Charl Johnson was proficient in.. he handled Roux well. but this bloke Stipp, a doctor of radiology, not fazed by a dead bleeding Reeva in the middle of the night wont be easy for Roux.. I am curious as to how Roux will approach him. Stipp has, being a radiologist, at least 12 years training for his doctorate, then 4 years for his radiology speciality, and is used to noting facts, details and possibly a photographic memory as well..

I imagine Roux will handle this witness very politely, very carefully. He is corroborating OP's story in a way - gunshots, then the cricket bat (I think Stipp will be willingly to concede the second set of shots could have been a cricket bat) but the lit bathroom window and the movement seem it could be dangerous territory somehow.

I also think his description of OP's reaction is a little damaging - all the 'dedicating his life to God if she lives'. He wasn't exactly incoherent with grief, was he?

 

[Trooper]

Id want to see Oscar..on his prosthetic legs, after firing 4 shots, go at that door with a cricket bat in the manner you described, stromm, god bless you.

 

[canny]

My question, also.

To wash his blood soaked hands? By doing this he destroyed all the gunshot residue from both his hands and his face as he tried to give her a mouth to mouth resuscitation. Immediately after the shooting he did call up some friend and his family members.When Hilton Botha arrived he noticed that Oscar's clothes were soaked in blood but his face and hands were clean, Oscar told him he washed his face and hands because they were bloody.He prayed to God to keep Reeva alive but could not bear to have her blood on his hands and face. Destruction of evidence plain and simple.

GSR on his hands and face would have been able to detect whether he used one or both his hands to shot the intruder!!!

 

[MeeBee]

Re: How far sound carries

I live in a location situated at the top of a hill. When I sit outside on my back deck in the evening during the summertime there are times (not all the time, but quite a few times) when I can hear neighbors out in their yard interacting with their kids. Their house is at least 700-800 ft. from mine.

In addition, I have a friend who lives near the edge of a cliff located about 500-600 ft. above the Allegheny River. Again during the summertime, and at night when things are quiet, we can sit on her deck and hear people talking who are on boats down on the river.

It is really weird how sound carries. When this happens it is always fairly hot outside and there is no breeze at all. Plus it is usually at 9 or 10 at night, when there is not much traffic on roads.

And again, this does not happen all the time. I have no idea what combination of environmental events allows it to happen, but I can guarantee it does happen.

No kidding! When I lived in Montreal there was a field several blocks away where they would hold kids' soccer matches. It was too far away to hear normally but sometimes you could hear the sounds very clearly. You could hear all the cheers as well as individuals talking. And it would all sound like it was right outside your window! It is quite a fascinating phenomena.

 

[zwiebel]

I feel so, so distraught for Reeva and her mom, having to listen to that testimony. If OP did kill her deliberately, it seems unbearable she died with his fingers sticking down her throat. Which could block an airway just as effectively as opening it, I would think.

 

[sorrell skye]

He went to call Security and heard ANOTHER three loud bangs. Thought there was more shooting and told wife to get out of the way.

.....sounds like he did mistake bat for shots....

Yes, but the 2nd round of loud bangs, as reported by this witness, came after the first round of bangs that he identified as gunshots in his testimony (shored up by his familiarity with the sound of gunshots by his military training).

I don't doubt that Mr. Roux will challenge Dr. Stipp's perception regarding the first 3 loud bangs, since there were 4 gunshots.

I have a feeling Shane will have an excellent explanation for this that includes physics hehehehe.

 

[shane13]

No kidding! When I lived in Montreal there was a field several blocks away where they would hold kids' soccer matches. It was too far away to hear normally but sometimes you could hear the sounds very clearly. You could hear all the cheers as well as individuals talking. And it would all sound like it was right outside your window! It is quite a fascinating phenomena.

Thanks.
That's wave superposition.

Any idea of distance? In meters or such?
And of course gunshots will carry much further than talking, so you see the nonsense from Roux abut what can't be...

 

[MeeBee]

I feel so, so distraught for Reeva and her mom, having to listen to that testimony. If OP did kill her deliberately, it seems unbearable she died with his fingers sticking down her throat. Which could block an airway just as effectively as opening it, I would think.

Sounds like at that point she was already dead. The biting was probably a reflex. I don't know what the reason was for putting his fingers down her throat though.

 

[Trooper]

I live on the shoreline in Sydney, and I have heard people out to sea on boats with an engine running at the same time... for nearly 1.5 klms. Once I heard a fight on a yacht between, believe it or not, 2 dwarfs, it was clear as a bell every word. .. The yacht was 300 metres from the end of an 80 metre pier.

I didn't know it was between 2 height challenged people until the next day, when they were charged with affray and offences against the peace of the public.

 

[shane13]

Yes, but the 2nd round of loud bangs, as reported by this witness, came after the first round of bangs that he identified as gunshots in his testimony (shored up by his familiarity with the sound of gunshots by his military training).

I don't doubt that Mr. Roux will challenge Dr. Stipp's perception regarding the first 3 loud bangs, since there were 4 gunshots.

I have a feeling Shane will have an excellent explanation for this that includes physics hehehehe.

Actually I am trying to first confirm.

This last witness said he heard 2 volleys of 3 shots each, yes?
And what time differential did he state or imply between them?

 

[Trooper]

I am absolutely sure, that Dr Stipp will be able to differentiate between the sound of a cricket bat and the sound of gunshots. the first because he is of British heritage , the second because he is ex military. Both cricket and gunshots would have been a large part of his daily life.

 

[MeeBee]

Thanks.
That's wave superposition.

Any idea of distance? In meters or such?
And of course gunshots will carry much further than talking, so you see the nonsense from Roux abut what can't be...

I really couldn't tell you off the top of my head, I'm terrible at that sort of thing. It was not close though.

 

[shane13]

I feel so, so distraught for Reeva and her mom, having to listen to that testimony. If OP did kill her deliberately, it seems unbearable she died with his fingers sticking down her throat. Which could block an airway just as effectively as opening it, I would think.

Interesting possibility--and speculation, of course.

Reminds me of the movie Internal Affairs, about bad cop, played by Richard Gere.

He kills his cop partner out of fear of being ratted out for being dirty cop.
As ambulance approaches, Gere (who had just shot him) is pretending to do mouth to mouth, but is really strangling him.

 

[sorrell skye]

I feel so, so distraught for Reeva and her mom, having to listen to that testimony. If OP did kill her deliberately, it seems unbearable she died with his fingers sticking down her throat. Which could block an airway just as effectively as opening it, I would think.

BBM

As I listened to Dr. Stipp's testimony, I felt an enormous grief wash over me. My thoughts were with Reeva's mother and father, who loved her so much and whose lives have been forever altered by the loss of their cherished Reeva.

How would Oscar know how to safely and successfully open the airway of a severely wounded person? When I heard that he was seen with his fingers in poor Reeva's mouth/throat, my first thought was: was he trying to finish her off before medical assistance arrived? After all, Dr. Stipp testified that Stander STILL hadn't phoned for an ambulance!

I'm feeling heartbroken for Mr. and Mrs. Steenkamp all over again. Last year I watched interviews where they shared wonderful memories of their beautiful daughter and showed photographs from when she was a little girl. Reeva was clearly their entire world (apart from their love for one another).

Oscar Pistorius destroyed their most precious person in the universe.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I think the reason the doctor only heard three shots at the start of the event may be that the first one woke him and he would not necessarily have heard it if he had been deeply asleep. It would cause him to stir and wake in time to hear the last three.

Methinks Roux is going to be troubled by the doctor.