Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[soozieqtips]

Well maybe it's just me, but that seems pretty cold - taking care of business i suppose.

Have I got false memory syndrome or did his lawyer and maybe a relative take some paperwork from the safe very shortly after the shooting? I'm sure I remember reading that because I thought it was such an impersonal thing to do right after Reeva had been killed.

 

[dgfred]

If she was on the phone, who with? Why is there no telephoned party?

Threatening to do so... dailing the numbers? Then he shoots???

 

[Harmony 2]

Bat was on floor when blood was dripping all over?

For anyone: Where is the best place to see the trial from today?

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-archive/

 

[soozieqtips]

If she was on the phone, who with? Why is there no telephoned party?

Do we know yet about all the phone calls made to and from her phone? I know about some texts but I thought they were on her iPad. She'd texted her friend earlier in the evening to let her know she was staying at OP's, but I'm not sure if there are more calls to be revealed during the trial.

 

[Schuby]

Just a general note to on lawyers: people with wealth don't hire lawyers because they require a specific service. They have an ongoing need for legal advice and an ongoing relationship with their lawyer as someone they trust, consult regularly and particularly in the event of a crisis. It's not like cold calling a personal injury lawyer out of the phone book.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

The telephone records will be interesting. Do we know of anything to be coming out of these records or is it unknown at this time?

Also, with regard to his ipad, was there anything in regard to this case on it was it just the hard core that he had been watching that was on it? Amazing that he'd forget the password to the app where he watched his , huh?

 

[Schuby]

Because she was moving?

She moves faster than bullets?

 

[ShadyLady]

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-archive/

Thanks...I found it.

I am sooooo tired of the defense. I am glad we don't have this kind of leadway in the States.

I am surprised anyone gets convicted in S. A. Defense talks 90% of the time!!

 

[Schuby]

The telephone records will be interesting. Do we know of anything to be coming out of these records or is it unknown at this time?

Also, with regard to his ipad, was there anything in regard to this case on it was it just the hard core that he had been watching that was on it? Amazing that he'd forget the password to the app where he watched his , huh?

It wasn't a app, it was the texting app WhatsAp

 

[Interested Bystander]

I checked back you are correct, schube,. the ambulance and police had not arrived by the time the Dr left to go home, around 4am.. give or take a minute either way.. in Dr stipps testimony yesterday, he said he asked the security guard if these matters had been attended to and the guard, Mr Stander said HE had called these facilities.. so maybe both did. at the time of writing I was going by that testimony , .. that guard did the calling.. he was calling all over the place that night.. .. either way, no one rang Reevas parents from the house that night..

and Oscar was onto his lawyer in less than an hour after the shooting, and if Oscars story is true, she was alive when he carried her downstairs, less than 45 -50 mins after Reeva expired.

My recollection of yesterday's testimony is that when the Doctor asked if an ambulance had been called, Stander said that neither he nor OP had called an ambulance.

 

[aa9511]

I am really anxious to see the ballistic evidence. I think that will be important evidence and we've really heard no mention of it yet.

SUch as, how far away was Oscar when he was doing the shooting? This is going to be vitally important.

 

[aa9511]

To follow Schuby's unlikeable post, here's another that will surely be hated:

I'm just now listening to Dr Ship's testimony, and it is becoming clear that the sounds heard at 3:17 by Ship and by Burger and Johnson was the sounds of the cricket bat breaking the door. It is the only thing that makes sense if Dr Ship is to be believed about what he heard.

No, with all due respect, it's not the only thing that makes sense.

The cricket bat sounds could have been first.

There was screaming going on throughout that time and as the gunshots started.

Then the gunshots.

The screaming and the gunshots are what woke up the other neighbors.

Then the last gunshot to the head, Reeva dies, and silence.

 

[aa9511]

the interesting thing , among so many, of Dr Stipps testimony was the person he saw in the bathroom, during this screaming , shooting moment. A light coloured silhouette. either it's Reeva OR Oscar with his legs on.

Because, if it's Oscar, he couldn't be WITHOUT his legs on.. the top of the bathroom window is frosted, and without his legs he wouldn't be HIGH enough , or plainly on his knees... so.. was it Oscar with his legs ON during the shooting, screaming lights on in the bathroom period?? or was it Reeva, standing on her own legs.. remains to be seen.

I thought he saw the silhouette after the shooting?

 

[aa9511]

It matters because if they heard screaming after the actual gunshots, it must have been Oscar and not Reeva. It demonstrates that they mistook the sound of the screaming.

Also, in Shipp's testimony, he heard bangs, then screaming, and then another set of bangs. This indicates that the first bangs he heard were gunshots - the screaming he then heard was Oscar, even though all witnesses believed it was a woman screaming, and then another set of bangs breaking the door with the cricket bat. Ship said the two sets of bangs sounded the same - which demonstrates that the cricket bat breaking down the door was as loud as the gunshots and sounded the same. The second set of bangs (cricket bat) happened at 3:17 - the exact time that Burger and Johnson said they heard "gunshots." It indicates that what Burger and Johnson thought were gunshots were really the cricket bat; they were awoken by Oscar's screams (mistaking them for sounds of a woman) after having slept through the first sounds of the actual gunshots, and what they heard at 3:17 was the cricket bat.

Not if the cricket bat was first, gun shots last.

IMO, you are taking for granted that what OP says is true.

 

[Madeleine74]

That was my first instinct when I read about the neighbors reports of simultaneous screaming and gun shots. Ironically, it was MB's emotional testimony about the "blood curdling" quality of the screams that made me question it. When people scream in a state of true immediate fear for their life, it is almost inhuman sounding. It doesn't sound "like them."

That may sound like spin but I only thought of it after reading MB's testimony because her description reminded me of the one (and, thank goodness, only) time I heard a scream like that. It came from a woman being mugged at gun point outside my house in the middle of the night. It's a very startling sound and there is no "familiar" quality to it.

The neighbors could only testify whether the screams sounded female in their opinion. But OP had to know who in his own house was screaming. I believe he knew it was Reeva in the toilet room. I don't believe Reeva was silent the whole way through, as OP claimed in his statement.

When you heard the loud screams near your house, you identified those sounds as coming from a woman.

 

[soozieqtips]

Cross-examined by defence counsel Barry Roux, the witness added: "He was making promises to God, he was trying to, I don't know, maybe get atonement, but he was very distraught, severely so ... He definitely wanted her to live."

Asked by Roux if Pistorius looked like a man who was sincere or pretending to the outside world, Stipp replied:
"He looked sincere to me. He was crying and there were tears on his face ... He was actively trying to assist her."
......................

The thing is if OP had killed her deliberately, I'd expect him to make it look as if he was upset and trying to assist her. The tears could have been fake for all we know, tears for himself as he was wondering how the hell he was going to get out of this mess. And after having shot her in the head, he must have known that no assisting by him would have saved her. So for me, Stipp's recollection of how OP was behaving was exactly how OP would have wanted it to be. OP has no problems with being manipulative when it suits him, like when he held the 'private' memorial for Reeva that conveniently got leaked to the press. I'm sure he didn't want it to be private at all, or how would the public know how much he was 'grieving' for the 'love of his life'? I think everything is by design with him.

 

[aa9511]

But the cricket bat successfully broke the door through, so if he used the cricket bat first to try to get at her ...he was successful. Why would he need to then go get a gun and shoot her? That really makes no sense, and even the state is not putting that forth as a possibility.

She could have been holding the key in her hands. Why would she leave the key there right within his reach when she knows he is trying to beat her with a bat? Why would she leave the key in the thingy-ma-jig keyholder, either? So all he would have to do is reach in and turn the key and open the door to get to her?

If he was to the point of trying to knock the door down with the cricket bat, surely she would think to hold the keys in her hands and away from his reach.

 

[MeeBee]

There's a possibility Oscar wasn't trying to kill her, he was just frustrated about not being able to get into the door and shot at it/her. He seems genuinely distraught over what he's done, even today. But sorrys and tears don't bring people back from the dead.

I believed him at first. I thought, hey, maybe he did mistake her for an intruder and in a paranoid fit shot her. It happens. But four shots? No. After hearing his story and hearing all this testimony I just can't swing it. I'm thinking rage shooting. But I'm not systemically biased against OP to where any bit or testimony pointing to his story being valid is immediately tossed out. It's definitely enough to give pause. But not convince me. My logical side is not buying it. But yes, a lot of trial still to come. Maybe something will swing me. Not yet, so far.

 

[aa9511]

It's hard for me to not see this scenario as too fantastically diabolical. That OP murders Reeva in a fit of vicious rage but seconds later, is able to affect a show of grief so dramatic that Dr. S fears he may kill himself, switch gears again to jog upstairs, cooly stage the scene and plot a cover, and then, on cue, resume the grieving affectation. It plays like a bad movie.

No, it's just called acting. A lot of guilty people do it.

JMO.

 

[Cherwell]

And if the panel broke away before he shot, why'd he miss on one and nail her thigh/elbow on others? Did he do that on purpose too as part of this diabolical master plan?

Because she was moving?

She moves faster than bullets?

With respect, that's a silly thing to say. Obviously it's harder to hit a moving target with accuracy. Three out of four shots hit her, which isn't surprising given the very limited space she had to move around in. She would also have tried to make herself as small a target as possible and protect her head with her arms*, which would explain the elbow wound.

*Not that it would do any good, but it's instinctive.