Trial Discussion Thread #10 - 14.03.19, Day 13

[MeeBee]

Or it was arterial spray, like the blood spatters downstairs, which is crazy to me because I didn't think artery spurted blood for very long after being severed.

 

[zwiebel]

To early to say. there's still every chance the state will take Oscar's story apart when we get to the defence witness's.

But we've already got to the state's witnesses, haven't we?

ETA: What am I talking about? I'm confusing defence and prosecution. I'm a nitwit.

 

[BritsKate]

LOLOL that made me laugh. I guess we will never know if the history had anything significant since they didn't retrieve it.

I don't know why it would make anyone laugh? That was the search term investigators missed in the computer forensics of Casey Anthony - whom, of course, was acquitted for the 2008 murder of her nearly 3 year old daughter Caylee. They'd only searched IE history, not Firefox, which came to light post-acquittal.

My point is - one never knows what could be obtained. So best to be thorough.

 

[Val1]

Here is a shot of the ipad search history that was show in court... and cars.

https://twitter.com/diannehawker/status/446233998915010560/photo/1

The most interesting thing about this is that the site was visited shortly after OP got home that evening while RS was there, makes one wonder just when they had their quiet dinner. Other than that, nothing to see imo.

 

[MeeBee]

I doubt OP was stupid enough to look up anything like 'self defence justifications' or verdicts on accidental 'domestic' shootings. I do think he was foolish enough to delete history though, that might sully his image. Even though he knew it might look highly suspicious under the circumstances.

Unless he was viewing the kind of that could lead to criminal charges.....ugh.

Well, the from after he deleted his history is still there, so I don't think this was a post murder deletion, it was a girlfriend is coming deletion.

 

[Trooper]

Not completely consistent unless Reeva peed standing up and facing the door....

and with her shorts pulled up.. I know south Africa has a different culture to texas but even in texas surely not??

so. she was facing the door. the door was closed.. she has her shorts pulled up. ( because the bullet went thru the shorts in the up position. ) . .

she slumps forward. would probably have folded onto the floor if it wasn't for the magazine rack..

the shot in the head.. is propelled forward onto the toilet basin.

somewhere either AFTER shot 2.. * head shot* is the ricocheting bullet.

then the 4th or 3rd shot, arm, elbow..

putative ricocheting bullet.

 

[Trooper]

even in Australia we don't pee FACING THE DOOR..

 

[Val1]

Well a direct quote from his report was that all the blood spatter was consistent with OP's version. I don't believe OP ever made a claim that Reeva was in the act of peeing or had just finished peeing or was about to pee. He didn't make any comment about where Reeva was positioned in the toilet when he fired the shots.

OP didn't but Roux was trying to "put it to" the witness that the hole in the door marked D had been the hip shot which "could not be" because it was too close to the wall for the shot to have hit her hip.

 

[MeeBee]

She could have been done peeing by then, perhaps pressing her ear to the door to hear what Oscar was on about.

 

[soozieqtips]

I don't know why it would make anyone laugh? That was the search term investigators missed in the computer forensics of Casey Anthony - whom, of course, was acquitted for the 2008 murder of her nearly 3 year old daughter Caylee. They'd only searched IE history, not Firefox, which came to light post-acquittal.

My point is - one never knows what could be obtained. So best to be thorough.

Agree 100%.

"Vincent Tabak, the 33-year-old Dutch engineer, who admits manslaughter but denies murder, also carried out internet searches on the average sentences for manslaughter and for murder, it was claimed".

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/19/vincent-tabak-joanna-yeates-death

Stuart Hazell searched for young girls in glasses matching his step-granddaughter's description on sites, and Mark Bridger who abducted and murdered 4-year-old April Jones had also searched for very young girls. Point is that web history can give various clues as to what's going on in someone's mind, so why anyone would consider it irrelevant is a mystery, particularly when a young woman has been shot to death and the defendant's explanation has so many holes in it.

 

[zwiebel]

even in Australia we don't pee FACING THE DOOR..

Shot standing in front of the door, in the hip, with the pause after that shot, the judge is being asked to accept:

Reeva stumbled back towards the toilet and mag rack in complete silence.

OP - unable to see his target at all - managed to hit her in the hip first

Then get another direct hit right to her head (that Reeva was coincidentally protecting) when she had completely changed her position in the room, as well as the height she was at.

Either he is the unluckiest person in the world, or he could see her, I think.

 

[Trooper]

I am interested in the time Nel has set aside to x-examine all defence witnesss... it was only last week ...he got an extension to the time frame of this trial..

I suspect ..but I don't know, that he will get thedefence witness to tell their story, the ballistic experts Oscar has retained, blood spatter.. probably a psychoanalyst to explain how he suddenly entered into 'deep terror'... etc.. and then there is the sound recording and the engineer and possibly Oscar himself re creating that womans scream the witnesses heard.. Roux says he has this at hand..

and certainly Oscar on the stand.

 

[james83]

True, and maybe the prosecution has an opportunity for rebuttal?

I get the feeling this will happen on many occasions.

 

[04009margaret]

Dr David Klatzow, well known expert forensic examiner on Oscar trial radio states:- "blood spatter evidence bolstered the ballistic evidence. Proved the hip shot came first & therefore would be inconceivable that there would be no cry out of pain, which then begs the question, why did he continue shooting, that's the question that needs to be asked". He also states Nel is confident he has made a prima facie case. You tube cricket bat/gunshot sound comparison test unreliable because of dynamic range of microphone. Then gave a very detailed explanation of why the sounds would not be the same, Meranti is a soft wood, not a hard wood & a 9mm would not break the sound barrier. He said you would definitely hear the difference from both sounds, he believes if Roux plans to do a re-enactment of the event (gunshot/cricket bat) it is fraught with dangers, as can't be replicated.

 

[Val1]

Or it was arterial spray, like the blood spatters downstairs, which is crazy to me because I didn't think artery spurted blood for very long after being severed.

The reason they would still spurt is simply physics, not because of the body still actively pumping it. ie.Think of what happens when you bend up a garden hose that still has water in it.

 

[Trooper]

I get the feeling this will happen on many occasions.

:blushing:

 

[BritsKate]

The sensational Pistorius saga has obscured the reality of daily life in South Africa, where crime rates are falling, cities are being revitalized, streets are safer than they have been for 20 years, and the number of “no-go” districts is fast declining.

Mr. Pistorius lived in a gated and guarded compound in Pretoria, one of the most secure in the country. Yet most South Africans do not live in giant fortresses. They live in ordinary houses, without the panic or terror that Mr. Pistorius said he felt.

The South Africa Being Described In Court Is Not The Country I Know

 

[MeeBee]

The reason they would still spurt is simply physics, not because of the body still actively pumping it. ie.Think of what happens when you bend up a garden hose that still has water in it.

Ah, makes sense. Thank you.

 

[Val1]

I am interested in the time Nel has set aside to x-examine all defence witnesss... it was only last week ...he got an extension to the time frame of this trial..

I suspect ..but I don't know, that he will get thedefence witness to tell their story, the ballistic experts Oscar has retained, blood spatter.. probably a psychoanalyst to explain how he suddenly entered into 'deep terror'... etc.. and then there is the sound recording and the engineer and possibly Oscar himself re creating that womans scream the witnesses heard.. Roux says he has this at hand..

and certainly Oscar on the stand.

Don't forget all the photos and such that needs to be entered into evidence that Roux kept promising would be forthcoming if the judge would just give him the leeway to use items not in evidence on his cross examinations.

 

[soozieqtips]

Dr David Klatzow, well known expert forensic examiner on Oscar trial radio states:- "blood spatter evidence bolstered the ballistic evidence. Proved the hip shot came first & therefore would be inconceivable that there would be no cry out of pain, which then begs the question, why did he continue shooting, that's the question that needs to be asked". He also states Nel is confident he has made a prima facie case. You tube cricket bat/gunshot sound comparison test unreliable because of dynamic range of microphone. Then gave a very detailed explanation of why the sounds would not be the same, Meranti is a soft wood, not a hard wood & a 9mm would not break the sound barrier. He said you would definitely hear the difference from both sounds, he believes if Roux plans to do a re-enactment of the event (gunshot/cricket bat) it is fraught with dangers, as can't be replicated.

If he can't replicate the exact conditions of that night, then it can't be admitted as actual evidence. I'm sure if Nel tried to come up with such a lame trick, that Roux would be all over him.