Trial Discussion Thread #11 weekend thread

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  • #541
Steve, if I heard someone being shot close by, I'd call the police, but I sure as hell wouldn't advance towards the danger.

I'm not OP after all :smile:
 
  • #542
the gorgeous Captain Mungeena qualified the order of shots fires as this.

1st shot. ( she is standing up facing the gun with a door between her and the weapon.. this shatters and completely breaks her hip bone, she slumps down and back onto the magazine rack . )

2nd shot. (as she slumps down her head falls forward, and this 2nd shot is the head shot.. )

3rd shot.. and 4th shot. one of these shots misses her, but richochets around hitting the tiles, fragmenting and bruising her chest and back , some fragment falls to the floor. She is now expelled forward by the head shot and comes to stasis with her head on the toilet basin.

the 4th or 3rd shot hits her arm , elbow.. she has flung her arm up and back.

the 3rd and 4th shot can be reversible in order of sequence, but not the 1st and 2nd. they are as it is .

Are you sure you have the correct order because otherwise I am really getting this wrong as the way I thought I heard it was:
  • 1st hip (because of height and angle)
  • 2nd missed (ricochet on wall with fragments hitting her back, not 🤬🤬🤬 double tap because Reeva would have received two wounds around same area before collapsing from the crashed hip which is why he reckons 2 double taps impossible while what Burger heard, bang... bang bang bang would be consistent)
  • 3rd & 4th - head or arm, but as Mangena noted her arm was raised when receiving the shot it would seem more likely the head shot must have been the 4th because according to Saymaan after head-shot she would have no voluntary movement... I think Saymaan stated that a scream (from fear, pain, etc.?) is an involuntary act.
 
  • #543
Can't remember that but I would be surprised if it could be that empty after a couple of hours but hey I am not a pathologist, in ant event the point i am really trying to thrash out was his version of events . if she had gone to bed a 10 o'clock she clearly must have been to the loo since that time ,hence the near empty bladder which means she would have had to have got up ,gone to the loo without OP hearing or noticing which I personally feel is highly unlikely so would be not inclined to believe his version of events but obviously things can only help if there is firm evidence beyond doubt

I am not discounting anything here.....I am just curious......does not ones bladder empty after death........just curious as I said....
 
  • #544
BBM - Which couple are you talking about?
Not too sure of the name. The lady who worked at the University and her husband. Michelle Burger perhaps?
 
  • #545
the only person who could tell us if she peed , or didn't pee. is Reeva.


and she is dead.

so its one of those things no one will ever know. not even Oscar.


only 2 people know what went on upstairs and downstairs that night. one is in the dock, and one is dead.

and the one in the dock isn't privy to the workings of anyones bladder except his own. its a secret Reeva has taken to her grave. . It is a big assumption to make that just because she is in the toilet, she is there to pee.. there are quite a few alternatives to that. It is a reasonable assumption, but it isn't the only one that could be made, and be true.

I'm suspicious of it merely because that's what Oscar wants to be believed on. Lets face it. he has to have SOME story as to why she dies so horribly in there. He's gone for the one acceptable.. but not necessarily factual.

BBM

Exactly!

If he had shot & killed Reeva somewhere else in the house (in the kitchen, for instance), we'd all be discussing the possibility that she'd got up for a late-night snack when OP gunned her down.

In that hypothetical circumstance, if he'd then kept to his current affidavit claim that grabbed his gun from beneath the bed and rushed downstairs to confront the intruder(s) without consulting with his bed partner with whom he'd just spoken moments before yada yada yada...

OP has a history of lying in order to avoid responsibility for his criminal actions (restaurant incident). OP has a historical pattern of consulting with his house guest when he heard noises in the night (Sam Taylor). OP didn't shoot through the door at his washer/dryer when he feared a burglar was in his laundry room (tweet about "recon mode").

OP has already demonstrated that he's a liar, which casts doubt on anything he says, IMO.

He let Fresco take the blame for the restaurant incident so he could avoid legal & criminal trouble, not to mention the risk to his brand sponsorships (his primary source of income).

Now he's trying to blame his fear of a non-existent burglar as his reason for killing Reeva.

Reeva was in the upstairs toilet when he gunned her down. Since he's a documented liar, what else was he going to say except that he feared an intruder or intruders had entered his bathroom & went into the toilet cubicle?

I don't believe him at all.
 
  • #546
Steve, if I heard someone being shot close by, I'd call the police, but I sure as hell wouldn't advance towards the danger.

I'm not OP after all :smile:
Lol.

Another one I don't want as a neighbour :(

Only joking, I quite understand. I couldn't go back to sleep until I knew what had happened. Perhaps I'm just nosy.
 
  • #547
Not too sure of the name. The lady who worked at the University and her husband. Michelle Burger perhaps?
Her husband called security, though he called the wrong number first. Do you think their testimony is questionable because they didn't do more? You say you're not sure about the ear witness testimony because they went back to sleep, but I don't think that compromises their account at all.
 
  • #548
I am not discounting anything here.....I am just curious......does not ones bladder empty after death........just curious as I said....

Yes , but it's not always immediate.
 
  • #549
BBM

Exactly!

If he had shot & killed Reeva somewhere else in the house (in the kitchen, for instance), we'd all be discussing the possibility that she'd got up for a late-night snack when OP gunned her down.

In that hypothetical circumstance, if he'd then kept to his current affidavit claim that grabbed his gun from beneath the bed and rushed downstairs to confront the intruder(s) without consulting with his bed partner with whom he'd just spoken moments before yada yada yada...

OP has a history of lying in order to avoid responsibility for his criminal actions (restaurant incident). OP has a historical pattern of consulting with his house guest when he heard noises in the night (Sam Taylor). OP didn't shoot through the door at his washer/dryer when he feared a burglar was in his laundry room (tweet about "recon mode").

OP has already demonstrated that he's a liar, which casts doubt on anything he says, IMO.

He let Fresco take the blame for the restaurant incident so he could avoid legal & criminal trouble, not to mention the risk to his brand sponsorships (his primary source of income).

Now he's trying to blame his fear of a non-existent burglar as his reason for killing Reeva.

Reeva was in the upstairs toilet when he gunned her down. Since he's a documented liar, what else was he going to say except that he feared an intruder or intruders had entered his bathroom & went into the toilet cubicle?

I don't believe him at all.
Me neither. He doesn't appear to have much of a conscience and comes across as totally shallow in my eyes. Even his uncle trying to convince Reeva's mother that her loss was as much as a loss to them as it was to her struck me as a) distasteful, and b) insincere. Everything feels forced and staged with the whole bunch of them.
 
  • #550
If Christo Menelaou will testify, he says he was woken at 03.08 and heard what he believed was the sound of three thunder claps. (I think this would have beeen cricket bat) because if the thunder claps were the shots then it would mean the shots (the first being the one that woke him) were fired at 03.08 and not at 3.17am as everyone keeps stating. So it had to be bat. This guy lives next door facing bathroom window!
 
  • #551
  • #552
I think you have to specifically set it to show in your sent box but I'm not certain.

Well apparently I did get a reply from the last one so at least we know they do go through even though they don't get saved to the Sent Folder. Still waiting to hear back if he got the first two which I just hit reply to send. Next time I check messages I will see if I can find some option like what you describe. Thx
 
  • #553
If Christo Menelaou will testify, he says he was woken at 03.08 and heard what he believed was the sound of three thunder claps. (I think this would have beeen cricket bat) because if the thunder claps were the shots then it would mean the shots (the first being the one that woke him) were fired at 03.08 and not at 3.17am as everyone keeps stating. So it had to be bat. This guy lives next door facing bathroom window!

Only the prosecution is saying the bangs at 3:17 were the gunshots.
 
  • #554
That blood near bed, near power switch, on watches was Oscar retrieving Reevas phone to change settings and get his sim out and place in the watch case..

The watch case was atop the bureau near where OP carried Reeva out of the bedroom and then downstairs. I think the blood on the watch case was deposited as he carried Reeva past it to take her downstairs.

There wasn't any blood on/near the thermostat switch on the wall. The thermostat switch photo was brought into evidence to show that the switch was 'off' (the air con was off).

The blood on the wall near the bed was on the left-hand side above the headboard. There was also blood on the duvet. The duvet was on the floor near the right-hand foot of the bed.

I haven't heard anything about a sim card missing from anyone's phones. Did I miss something? :confused:
 
  • #555
Her husband called security, though he called the wrong number first. Do you think their testimony is questionable because they didn't do more? You say you're not sure about the ear witness testimony because they went back to sleep, but I don't think that compromises their account at all.
I'm not discounting that they awoke to noise, I'm questioning the statement regarding the ferocity of screaming they allegedly heard. I think think this was the lady who described the screams in a few different ways, something like blood-curdling or terrifying screams. I just couldn't go back to sleep and forget about that. If it was that shocking I'd have to go and report it as soon as possible, at least first thing in the morning.

The problem is they didn't, they both went to work. Only when they had heard what had happened from elsewhere did they decide 'we'd better go and say something'. I can't buy the idea that the intensity of screaming was like that, and yet they seemed to carry on as if it was nothing. It just doesn't sit right with me.
 
  • #556
So 6 rounds, 1 still in chamber ejected by cops, 5 left? 4 accounted 1 not? Bedroom door?

Sorry, I can't remember now, did that 4 accounted for include the one the defense claims to have found in the toilet bowl day/s later?
 
  • #557
What was in bowl was fragments from the bullet that entered her head but broke apart, some staying inside the rest travelled out exit wound to bowl.
 
  • #558
I am not discounting anything here.....I am just curious......does not ones bladder empty after death........just curious as I said....

Often times it does, but certainly not always; iirc it is about 35% of people do void their bladder upon dying. The production of urine is constantly happening, I've forgotten the exact amount but it may be .15ml per hour, Wikipedia has it I'm sure.

The fact that Reeva's bladder was near empty, not completely empty, means that she used the bathroom well before she was killed. That is why the testimony regarding the amount of urine she had in her bladder goes against not for OP. His expert is going to argue otherwise only because he has to have Reeva's bladder empty to place her in the WC for that purpose only, not because she was hiding from OP.
 
  • #559
Yes I I know the watch case positioned does lend itself to be contaminated by his passing with Reeva in arms but would there not be a lot more at bedroom doorway whilst he fiddled to unlock it to get out? As Oscar has failed to tell us when exactly he unlocked the bedroom door to go downstairs.
The fact the cover case was off iPhone indicates that is was removed as they usually snap on tight. Why?
 
  • #560
Yet Roux continues to harp that 4 bangs was the bat to retrieve Reeva. His is quite the defence isn't he? His power to create such melodrama and misconstrue to witness statements for his client is to be credited.
 
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