Trial Discussion Thread #11 weekend thread

[G.bng]

is there any footage anywhere at all, of OP on his stumps standing, walking, running?:websleuther:

Search on YouTube for the "The fastest man on no legs" documentary which shows OP as a kid doing things on stumps.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Bedroom door kicked...from inside master bedroom that has bathroom in it, from inside not outside and it leads to hallway...perhaps she did lock him out and go to spare room (there was evidence mentioned that someone was using that room) to sleep after being pissed off by his sexual advances..he is miffed to the max...shoots at door and smashes it open...even looks like he might have used his 'blades' to pry it open see scrapes..although we have no info this happened at same event timing. But there is no casings found or retrieved to indicate that. That casing from shot had to be in bedroom entrance. Opens door with bat confronts her in spare room she screams and runs back to other bedroom to get her things he chases more and she retreats to loo.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Just checked. Gun carries magazines of either 6, 10 or 12 rounds.

So 6 rounds, 1 still in chamber ejected by cops, 5 left? 4 accounted 1 not? Bedroom door?

 

[LemonMousse]

It's stretch to imagine that OP set up false ear witness evidence in advance :floorlaugh:

The State have conceded that only 4 shots were fired. There were only 4 shell casings found. OP and the property were searched. I guess his plan and "false evidence trail" could have been so finely worked out that he swallowed 3 or 4 cartridge shells?
A risky strategy given his propensity for public vomiting :floorlaugh:

Occam's Razor where are you.
TWO events that did for sure cause loud bangs.
TWO sets of loud bangs heard by witnesses.

Where has the false ear witness come from?

The cricket bat FOR SURE caused a set of bangs? Says who? Oh, right....OP. The man facing 25 years in prison.

Never mind the laws of physics, never mind that 130db is something like 10 times louder than 114, never mind a thin door that shows no evidence of being bashed in by a cricket bat....Occam's Razar says the simplest explanation tends to be correct, right? (It actually doesn't, but never mind).

 

[Gbtaketwo]

If they had sex when they went to bed at 10 pm, which is feasible, she would probably have gone to the
loo afterwards. No reason why he wouldn't know about it.

I am not sure I should still be discussing the loo routine anymore as I think some people felt it was a bit irrelevant which is fine lol

But I will say she died at approx 3.18 five hours after ten o'clock with a virtually empty bladder so was definitely up and around at some time between 10 pm and 3.18 . It can't have been at the time when OP says because he would have to have heard the flush or otherwise we have to believe that she went to the loo some other time without OP hearing It is not evidence but just gives more doubt over his version of events that night .
There are going to be some big pieces of final evidence to come this week I'm sure

 

[Viper]

I'm afraid I don't have the ability to post and include your name and thread details at the top of a posting, the forum mods will clarify that.
I'm not overly concerned, I've made my point and moved on.

<modsnip>.

That's fine, no harm no foul! :smile:

If you can just please give me the post number that would be great!

 

[minor4th]

I have forgotten ,is it the stipp's house that backs on to OP's house making them one of the closest neighbours ?

Yes, I believe they are the closest of the witnesses so far. IIRC his house is directly across the backyard or field or whatever it is. Nothing in between.

 

[steveml]

So 6 rounds, 1 still in chamber ejected by cops, 5 left? 4 accounted 1 not? Bedroom door?

Yep, I'd presume 6 round chamber. I've already heard that the bedroom door hole was made by an air-rifle, but I haven't mentioned it here as it was from a supposed reporter's twitter account (there are many fake accounts - so need to confirm this yet).

 

[minor4th]

As far as I'm aware the gun was a Taurus 9mm Parabellum which usually has a 10-round magazine, however I can't remember how many bullets were loaded.

I don't know if they ever said

 

[MeeBee]

Yes, I believe they are the closest of the witnesses so far. IIRC his house is directly across the backyard or field or whatever it is. Nothing in between.

Oh, aha. So would the sounds of the bat hitting the door not need to travel as far as it did in the YT demo? Wasn't the mic set up for the distance that the Burger's house was?

 

[Gavel Rash]

Can you post photos here? Jpegs?

 

[G.bng]

That's a very good point. My take on intruder suggestion is that if you thought that an armed intruder was behind the door, you'd stand quite far back from the door as the closer you are, the less time you have to assess and aim. If prosecution could prove that he shot from very close to the door, it would seem more probable that he knew who was behind the door, and knew that they didn't pose a threat. I think the spent cartridges may have been intended to be an indicator, although it was mentioned in court that these could have been kicked or moved during the investigation.

Even with all the apparent bungling by the police at the crime scene imo it is infinately more likely the spent cartridges were "kicked or moved" around by OP himself, i.e from rushing back and forth three times to the bedroom as detailed in his statement (1st. to wake Reeva, 2nd. to put on his prothesis, and 3rd. to get the cricket bat) and G*d knows how many more times for other errands such as pull Reeva out of the toilet, to open the front door, to pick Reeva up and carry her downstairs, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Gavel Rash]

www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/162790733

http://scribd.com/mobile/doc/162790733

I am unsure how to do this properly sorry. I'm only good for cut and paste. old school

 

[steveml]

I'm a bit concerned about the ear-witness testimony, whereby shots/bangs and terrible screams heard. When we're discussing what a normal person would do, I would have to go and find out what was happening. Yet, the couple just went back to sleep and went to work the next day. If it was that bad, is it reasonable that you would just go back to sleep?

We need to bear in mind that it can't be entirely convincing to argue that OP shouldn't be overly concerned about security because it's a safe contained patrolled estate, and then to argue that people wouldn't have gone from their house to check it out because it's a dangerous environment.

 

[sorrell skye]

Was just thinking we haven't heard a single mention of finger prints have we? I want to know if RSs last text was to her Joberg family and if they found any of his finger prints on her phone or whatever she used. G Myers said about the text in the documentary, apparently sent around 10pm....she also said, almost as an afterthought it was the first time ever that RS hadn't said "Night my G, I love you"...I am probably over thinking but we do need to hear the cell phone evidence that's for sure!

Even if OP's fingerprints or DNA were found on Reeva's phone, I don't think it would be indicative of anything pertaining to the murder charge.

During the course of the evening, OP could have coincidentally touched her phone, since they were in the same house together. I would be more suspicious if there were NO fingerprints at all (either Reeva's or OP's) on Reeva's phone (i.e. wiped clean).

The only time fingerprints or DNA raises my eyebrow is when it's a stranger's fingerprints/DNA which would not be expected to be where it was found.

 

[james83]

I'm a bit concerned about the ear-witness testimony, whereby shots/bangs and terrible screams heard. When we're discussing what a normal person would do, I would have to go and find out what was happening. Yet, the couple just went back to sleep and went to work the next day. If it was that bad, is it reasonable that you would just go back to sleep?

We need to bear in mind that it can't be entirely convincing to argue that OP shouldn't be overly concerned about security because it's a safe contained patrolled estate, and then to argue that people wouldn't have gone from their house to check it out because it's a dangerous environment.

Disagree, if I hear gunshots im staying in my house, curiosity killed the cat.
Calling security was all they were obliged to do.

 

[steveml]

Even with all the apparent bungling by the police at the crime scene imo it is infinately more likely the spent cartridges were "kicked or moved" around by OP himself, i.e from rushing back and forth three times to the bedroom as detailed in his statement (1st. to wake Reeva, 2nd. to put on his prothesis, and 3rd. to get the cricket bat) and G*d knows how many more times for other errands such as pull Reeva out of the toilet, to open the front door, to pick Reeva up and carry her downstairs, etc. etc. etc.

It's very probable. It's quite interesting how the barometer of opinion has moved regarding certain aspects since the very beginning of the trial. Initially some of us were suggesting that there may have been a police conspiracy to frame OP, and finding reasons as to why the police may have intentionally altered the crime scene. At this stage, everything seems to have swung towards the definite presumption that if anything has been moved, it's been preplanned by OP. Nothing wrong with that, just an observation.

 

[steveml]

Disagree, if I hear gunshots im staying in my house, curiosity killed the cat.
Calling security was all they were obliged to do.

I'm glad you're not my neighbour.

:truce:

 

[Gavel Rash]

In regard to door and ballistics....was there a stated conclusion as to the amount of tatoo left on each of the four bullet holes on the surface of the door...or was it just 'mentioned' that this tatoo mark is left on target? If it was merely mentioned but not applied to each bullet hole..then there may be conclusive evidence suggesting Osacr was firstly back against wall 1st shot...then moved in closer for subsequent shots hence approx of min 600mm to a furthest possible wall positioning.

 

[soozieqtips]

I'm a bit concerned about the ear-witness testimony, whereby shots/bangs and terrible screams heard. When we're discussing what a normal person would do, I would have to go and find out what was happening.
Yet, the couple just went back to sleep and went to work the next day. If it was that bad, is it reasonable that you would just go back to sleep?

We need to bear in mind that it can't be entirely convincing to argue that OP shouldn't be overly concerned about security because it's a safe contained patrolled estate, and then to argue that people wouldn't have gone from their house to check it out because it's a dangerous environment.

BBM - Which couple are you talking about?

Johnson says he could hear the voice of a woman “[who] was in trouble. It was clearly distressed calls”. Then he heard a man call, “Help! Help!”. He rang estate security on his wife’s phone and told them that people were being attacked in the neighbouring estate. It turned out that the number in her phone was for the security office for the estate where they used to live. He told them he had got the wrong number and went back to the balcony.

I don't know if he managed to get the right number after

Van der Merwe's husband called security.

On hearing the “shots”, Van der Merwe turned her husband, who told her that the noises were gunshots. He looked out of the window, but could see nothing. They went back to bed and her husband called security.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/04/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-updates

Is there a third couple?