Trial Discussion Thread #11 weekend thread

[Insp.Dots]

That blood near bed, near power switch, on watches was Oscar retrieving Reevas phone to change settings and get his sim out and place in the watch case..

Sorry I am lost can you tell me where you got the SIM or him with Reeva's phone info from as its the first I've heard of it?

 

[Viper]

Can you provide your source for where you heard that the Judge would be sending a specific message, I presumed it was via the media?

The attachment was a simple posting error.

My text:
"...she will want to be seen to give a clear message that being white and wealthy does not mean that you are above the law..."

There is no media source for an opinion. But my opinion is well founded I believe. She sentenced a rapist (3 counts) to 258 years in prison. Unless the life expectancy for South African rapists is 257 years then I can't see the point, other than to send a message that South Africa will not accept violence against women.

 

[Really?]

Bear in mind, that while he was in the passage way he could have had absolutely no clue that the "intruder" was in the toilet. For all he knew there was a bad man (maybe more than one, as he alludes to in his affidavit) loose in his bathroom - no doubt fully expecting him because he'd just screamed at them.

So poor, vulnerable on his stumps Oscar willingly chose to risk an ambush in the pitch black all to save the life of the woman he loved.

Yeah, right.

I know I am hours behind but I cannot resist.........:floorlaugh:

bye bye Oscar ---> you will have to make a new set of friends..:jail:

 

[Interested Bystander]

I always thought it mean My Opinion Only. [Same difference I suppose]:moo:

Could be. Both look equally correct. I don't think I have ever seen what it means in print.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

bbm For anyone like me that had watched the JA trial, this surely is familiar.

I do have a question regarding the autopsy though, I didn't hear any mention of a rape kit analysis to determine if she had had recent sexual relations and with whom. Anyone know if that's coming down the pike?

Don't think it has been discussed yet but may depending on what further evidence is heard . At this point whether they had or hadn't wouldn't rule in or out either scenario's but it is still possible that it may become relevant

 

[Gavel Rash]

Sorry it is speculation. I had read somewhere that Oscar had a phone that was retrieved days later by cops. Botha quite emphatically said that no calls were recorded on ANY of the phones at the scene. Next we hear that Baba is saying he called first...phone records that are shown, from his phone, say no you have it wrong. Was the record of calls tampered with? Via the removal of sim? I am only trying to understand why the watch case and some watches had blood on it? It would have had to have been a really heavy duty flick of reevas dead bleeding body to get blobs like that around the corner of the bedroom wall onto stereo speaker. And if bedroom door locked when did he do that? Not when he had reeva in his arms. Why are there also no blood soaked sock prints down the stairs? The bottom of only one sock appears to have blood on it? How do you pick up a dead weight in bathroom with blood on floor and not get it on bottom of both socks?

 

[steveml]

My text:
"...she will want to be seen to give a clear message that being white and wealthy does not mean that you are above the law..."

There is no media source for an opinion. But my opinion is well founded I believe. She sentenced a rapist (3 counts) to 258 years in prison. Unless the life expectancy for South African rapists is 257 years then I can't see the point, other than to send a message that South Africa will not accept violence against women.

I've highlighted it to help you. What does that have to do with rapists or harsh sentences? Simple question.

 

[G.bng]

Hard to believe, but may happen in a few days.

I'm not holding my breath for hearing him. I reckon the defence may try to get the case chucked out after the state rests. I'm not saying it will work but my bet is they will give it a try.

 

[Viper]

I've highlighted it to help you. What does that have to do with rapists or harsh sentences? Simple question.

You are conflating different posts of mine and the original. This is new! :facepalm:

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Sorry it is speculation. I had read somewhere that Oscar had a phone that was retrieved days later by cops. Botha quite emphatically said that no calls were recorded on ANY of the phones at the scene. Next we hear that Baba is saying he called first...phone records that are shown, from his phone, say no you have it wrong. Was the record of calls tampered with? Via the removal of sim? I am only trying to understand why the watch case and some watches had blood on it? It would have had to have been a really heavy duty flick of reevas dead bleeding body to get blobs like that around the corner of the bedroom wall onto stereo speaker. And if bedroom door locked when did he do that? Not when he had reeva in his arms. Why are there also no blood soaked sock prints down the stairs? The bottom of only one sock appears to have blood on it? How do you pick up a dead weight in bathroom with blood on floor and not get it on bottom of both socks?

I think a lot of blood is spread around the place by OP
Netcare allegedly told op to carry her downstairs to take her to hospital but We haven't had confirmation of that so far .

I have also read somewhere about a SIM card being in the watch box but didn't register the connection or read further to see what evidence there was to support what I had read . Can't even remember where I read about it now but it was before you posted about it . Could be in an unconfirmed press report .
About the socks it is yet another mystery but it I think Roux asked about a photograph of his feet ? I couldn't understand why the defence would ask about that .

 

[steveml]

The judge will be aware that this case is being watched by the world and that the S.A. justice system is also on trial here. she will want to be seen to give a clear message that being white and wealthy does not mean that you are above the law....

You may well facepalm. Here's your original post above.

Whatever your view on the politics and race issues within SA this is not the forum for it. I'm not suggesting that it's off-topic, however if we're going to get into discussions regarding this we would need to start a new thread. I think most of the posters in this thread accept that we are all discussing this case on the basis of it's merit without any suggestive influence of colour or creed.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Netcare are also on so far uncalled list of witnesses. I am sure there is a record of what calls they received and when.
Yes the sexy romp probably got weird or violent and Reeva was scared and out of her depth. That herbal concoction purportedly gives extreme hardons...did he pump his gut full of it whilst she was in the shower? Raging bull man! It is in fact a product containing pig testosterone. As we have not been given by Oscar any record of prior evening events re dinner, movie, yoga cuddles etc. what was the mood? He was watching at 6.30 in the evening! Not like in bed watching together for a bit of foreplay.

 

[G.bng]

Still trying to get my head around the toilet scenario and how the defence is going to explain it.

RS is first shot while standing in the cubicle facing the door. She has her pants pulled up. If she got up to go to the loo, one if the following must have happened:

1. She got up and went to the loo, but she didn't flush.(However, there was no paper in the toilet bowl as far as I could see from crime scene photos. Does any woman pee and not use paper or something else ie water afterwards?)
2. She got up and went to the loo, and she flushed. In which case OP must have heard the cistern filling and would surely not have concluded it was a burglar taking a leak.
3. She got up but before she had a pee she hears OP shouting so she forgets about the need to pee and stays in the cubicle, possibly locking the door as a result. So how come her bladder is empty?

1. Exactly... no normal woman doesn't flush or not use toilet paper... that is so improbable I will never believe that.

2. Exactly... if she flushed OP would have heard the syphon at that time of night when all is quiet.

3. Exactly. What urge could Reeva have to get up to have a pee if her bladder was nigh empty. It isn't even normal for a youngster to have to get up in the middle of the night to pee anyway, that's for older folks, however if as Saymaan says she ate around 1:00 or before then it would be normal for her to pee before going to bed. And iirc Saymaan also said something about the nigh empty bladder not being indicative that she had just peed because had she peed up to a few hours before it would have shown more or less the same amount.

 

[Val1]

You're welcome. With regard to the iPad/iPhone question, yes the devices can be synched very easily. iPad to iPhone, and also iPad 3 to iPad 2 (as both units were in OP's house). This can be done over wi-fi or by using what is referred to as 'the cloud'. I'm sure there would be traceable information for data synched or deleted this way. He probably did this with his iPads as it was mentioned both contained the same bookmarks/favourites.

I thought one of the ipads belonged to RS? That could have been the motive for any argument, perhaps his overwrote the speech she was working on for the next day?

 

[Insp.Dots]

Sorry it is speculation. I had read somewhere that Oscar had a phone that was retrieved days later by cops. Botha quite emphatically said that no calls were recorded on ANY of the phones at the scene. Next we hear that Baba is saying he called first...phone records that are shown, from his phone, say no you have it wrong. Was the record of calls tampered with? Via the removal of sim? I am only trying to understand why the watch case and some watches had blood on it? It would have had to have been a really heavy duty flick of reevas dead bleeding body to get blobs like that around the corner of the bedroom wall onto stereo speaker. And if bedroom door locked when did he do that? Not when he had reeva in his arms. Why are there also no blood soaked sock prints down the stairs? The bottom of only one sock appears to have blood on it? How do you pick up a dead weight in bathroom with blood on floor and not get it on bottom of both socks?

Ah ok thanks. I think OP did have his phone (or someone did) for a few days until the Police requested it be handed over. It is a mystery as yet as to why the other phones were in the bathroom yet 'apparently' not used that night. No idea with regard to blood on watchable, though it was close to the bedroom door and with her hair said to be drenched in blood it could be when he took RS out of the room. As for sock and footprints it could be that movement around crime scene and lack of police coordination hampered proper evidence being collected. Having said that I don't think footprints on stairs make much odds as we know OP went up and down as stated. This is why I think the mistakes made by Police could turn out to be quite a problem with this trial. How can we trust what is a police error and what is OP or someone hiding evidence?

 

[G.bng]

That is correct , so disproving his story would help the prosecution case .
I think she may have been in there quite a while but had definitely used the toilet because of the empty bladder.
If you look at the blood on the pan it has dried dark red . If the blood had dropped onto a recently flushed wet toilet it would likely look more diluted ?

IMBW, but I am sure I recall the pathologist Saymaan saying that her nigh empty bladder was NOT indicative of her having used the toilet at that time as she would have had the same amount of urine in her bladder had she gone an hour or two earlier, which would place her using the loo just around the time after she last ate... much more logical imo.

 

[BritsKate]

I found this article compelling. From experience, I think it's really easy to make assumptions about a country until and unless you gain first hand experience. JMO

It has been awkward viewing. Under cross-examination the police have shown - as they did at the bail hearing last year - a consistent ability to shoot themselves in the foot. Evidence has been mishandled, items stolen. A prevailing sloppiness reigns.

It's symptomatic of a country where state employees are under-trained, under-resourced, and swamped by work. A lawyer outside the courthouse tells me there's a five-year backlog of toxicology reports holding up thousands of drunken driving cases.

"It's not incompetence. They do their best. It's just limited training, experience, and resources," said Mannie Witz, who is representing one of Reeva Steenkamp's friends, Darren Fresco.

Nation of Competing Realities

 

[Insp.Dots]

1. Exactly... no normal woman doesn't flush or not use toilet paper... that is so improbable I will never believe that.

2. Exactly... if she flushed OP would have heard the syphon at that time of night when all is quiet.

3. Exactly. What urge could Reeva have to get up to have a pee if her bladder was nigh empty. It isn't even normal for a youngster to have to get up in the middle of the night to pee anyway, that's for older folks, however if as Saymaan says she ate around 1:00 or before then it would be normal for her to pee before going to bed. And iirc Saymaan also said something about the nigh empty bladder not being indicative that she had just peed because had she peed up to a few hours before it would have shown more or less the same amount.

I somehow think the defence will just say she was alarmed by OPs shouting and quickly got up, pulled up shorts and locked the door......

 

[soozieqtips]

If I took a pee (just a pee!!) in the middle of the night when everyone was asleep, I wouldn't flush in case I woke someone up. I would always use toilet paper though. Women don't drip dry!

 

[steveml]

I thought one of the ipads belonged to RS? That could have been the motive for any argument, perhaps his overwrote the speech she was working on for the next day?

That's a possibility. I was thinking along the lines that she hadn't initially intended on staying, so would she have taken along an iPad.

It occurred to me that OP is the sort that likes to have the latest designer accesories and gadgets. With that in mind I was wondering if he still had the older iPad 2 and then latterly purchased the iPad 3. He would then synch the two together, and this would copy the same bookmarks from one to the other. If would be extremely coincidental for two individual people to have exactly the same bookmarks (this would suggest that they both only look at exactly the same websites). Probably and cars from what we heard in the trial.