Trial Discussion Thread #11 weekend thread

[minor4th]

Ok...

Witness lists are public information. The defense did not leak his name.

He has, as you said, gone public and given interviews of his own volition, so I'm sure he does not feel particularly violated.

He is perfectly allowed to give interviews before he's subpoenaed. This happens ALL the time. It doesn't taint him or his testimony. As long as he sticks to his story, there's nothing wrong with calling him.

None if this is any reason why he won't be called. And I'm certain he will be since his testimony, from what I've read, will be pretty beneficial to Oscar.

I don't know what kind of "witness lists" Trooper has been looking at or why he thinks it would be an invasion of privacy to publish witness names, but ALL of the witnesses who have testified are on the State's public witness list, included with their indictment. Including Burger (#80), Johnson (#79), Merwe (#6), and Stipp (#8), Taylor (#40), and Fresco (#54).

 

[Viper]

I don't know. I'm a catch and my husband looks at . Sometimes it's just a glance, sometimes when I'm in the house. He's a guy. That's what guys do.

I forgive you.

You are referencing God and Christianity in your posts on the Internet to support an admitted killer; Seriously?

 

[sorrell skye]

Then what did Mr and Mrs Stipp and Christo M. hear at 3:08?

I've just checked the timeline thread here and I don't see any reference to Dr. Stipp specifying 3:08 a.m. as to the time that he heard the first sounds he identified as the gunshots & the woman screaming.

Mrs. Stipp hasn't testified.

Ditto for Christo M.

Link to timeline thread:

Timeline Thread ***NO DISCUSSION*** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


For the most part, the timelines regarding when witnesses heard anything is an estimate of when they each have said they heard what they believed were gunshots and the woman screaming. The range (if the timelines are accurate) seems to be between 3:00 a.m. - 3:15 a.m. (including your own timeline, Minor4th).

A specific time is given when Dr. Stipp called Pieter Baba at 3:15:51 a.m. after hearing the first set of sounds that he believed were gunshots & the woman screaming.

I haven't heard or read any testimony regarding 3:08 a.m. If I missed it, would someone kindly post that particular testimony (with links)? TIA

 

[MeeBee]

You are referencing God and Christianity in your posts on the Internet to support an admitted killer; Seriously?

Huh??

 

[Trooper]

I guess if one was chronically biased against Oscar, one would see it that way...

Of course I am chronically biased against Oscar.. I am chronically biased towards getting a murderer off the streets, and some justice for Ms Steenkamp.

If I wasn't , I'd be faffing about on the Pistorious Family site, bleating about what a nice guy Oscar is, and it was all an accident, and aren't the police mean.

not me. I am chronically biased toward the State of South Africa's case against Oscar all the way.

This site is a victim friendy site. it isn't a site about how to find ways to get murderers off, Webslueths has always been a victim friendly site,

it could hardly be proposed that Oscar is the victim. With any rationality , that is.


so absolutely, count me in with those who are chronically biased against Oscar Pistorius. he is, according to the laws under which he resides, the man who pulled the trigger loaded with black talon bullets on Reeva Steenkamp.

if that's bias.... put me on the biased list with complete assurance that its exactly where I stand.. no ambiguity at all.

 

[minor4th]

I've just checked the timeline thread here and I don't see any reference to Dr. Stipp specifying 3:08 a.m. as to the time that he heard the first sounds he identified as the gunshots & the woman screaming.

Mrs. Stipp hasn't testified.

Ditto for Christo M.

Link to timeline thread:

Timeline Thread ***NO DISCUSSION*** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


For the most part, the timelines regarding when witnesses heard anything is an estimate of when they each have said they heard what they believed were gunshots and the woman screaming. The range (if the timelines are accurate) seems to be between 3:00 a.m. - 3:15 a.m. (including your own timeline, Minor4th).

A specific time is given when Dr. Stipp called Pieter Baba at 3:15:51 a.m. after hearing the first set of sounds that he believed were gunshots & the woman screaming.

I haven't heard or read any testimony regarding 3:08 a.m. If I missed it, would someone kindly post that particular testimony (with links)? TIA

Stipp testified it was about 10 minutes between the first loud bangs and the second loud bangs that he heard around 3:17. He did not give a precise time, however,

The 3:08 comes from the article about Cristo M. I was not the one who originally posted, and I had never heard of him or his account until I read that blurb that was posted.

ETA: The phone call to baba at 3:15:51 (lasting 16 seconds coincided with the SECOND set of bangs that Stipp heard.

 

[Trooper]

I've just checked the timeline thread here and I don't see any reference to Dr. Stipp specifying 3:08 a.m. as to the time that he heard the first sounds he identified as the gunshots & the woman screaming.

Mrs. Stipp hasn't testified.

Ditto for Christo M.

Link to timeline thread:

Timeline Thread ***NO DISCUSSION*** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


For the most part, the timelines regarding when witnesses heard anything is an estimate of when they each have said they heard what they believed were gunshots and the woman screaming. The range (if the timelines are accurate) seems to be between 3:00 a.m. - 3:15 a.m. (including your own timeline, Minor4th).

A specific time is given when Dr. Stipp called Pieter Baba at 3:15:51 a.m. after hearing the first set of sounds that he believed were gunshots & the woman screaming.

I haven't heard or read any testimony regarding 3:08 a.m. If I missed it, would someone kindly post that particular testimony (with links)? TIA

I cant find it either.. either it doesn't exist or its some kind of persistant error..

 

[MeeBee]

Of course I am chronically biased against Oscar.. I am chronically biased towards getting a murderer off the streets, and some justice for Ms Steenkamp.

If I wasn't , I'd be faffing about on the Pistorious Family site, bleating about what a nice guy Oscar is, and it was all an accident, and aren't the police mean.

not me. I am chronically biased toward the State of South Africa's case against Oscar all the way.

This site is a victim friendy site. it isn't a site about how to find ways to get murderers off, Webslueths has always been a victim friendly site,

it could hardly be proposed that Oscar is the victim. With any rationality , that is.


so absolutely, count me in with those who are chronically biased against Oscar Pistorius. he is, according to the laws under which he resides, the man who pulled the trigger loaded with black talon bullets on Reeva Steenkamp.

if that's bias.... put me on the biased list with complete assurance that its exactly where I stand.. no ambiguity at all.

Yes, but that kind of bias can cause a person to not even consider the other person's story or the slight possibility that their story is true. It causes one to be deaf to all evidence and find that it all slants in one direction without looking at it objectively. That's one's perogative, but let's not act that that kind of bias means that one is seeking the truth. One is just looking to make all the evidence make someone look as guilty as possible without neutrality.

 

[Viper]

Sorry to butt in but ..

Where did you find God and Christianity in that post? And to support a killer??

S/he is referring to forgiving.

 

[MeeBee]

S/he is referring to forgiving.

She

Do you think God is the only one that can forgive? I don't understand how it's a reference to God.

 

[minor4th]

Deleting this post so I don't get in trouble for being sarcastic and snarky or personal ...

 

[Trooper]

The 3:08 comes from the article about Cristo M

is this the evidence you refer to re Menalou .. this article in Drum Magazine??

http://drum.co.za/celebs/hes-heartbroken/

 

[Viper]

And Christians ...don't forget Christians.

Oh my, and so the divided becomes even more clear...

 

[MeeBee]

Oh my, and so the divided becomes even more clear...

What???

 

[Viper]

Deleting this post so I don't get in trouble for being sarcastic and snarky or personal ...

Too late

 

[minor4th]

Oh my, and so the divided becomes even more clear...

I have no idea what you're talking about at all. I was making a joke about the way your worded your post, but I thought it better to delete it because it's really not appropriate to joke about a post like that on this forum.

 

[TorisMom003]

But the screams and the times of the sounds heard by the witnesses do match up exactly:

--Gunshots at 3:08 heard by the Stipps and Cristo M. (who will likely be called by defense?)

-- Loud screaming heard by all witnesses, including the Stipps

-- Loud bangs heard at 3:17 by all witnesses. Had to have been cricket bat sounds if the only two sounds were cricket bat and gunshots and the gunshots were before the cricket bat

-- Silence followed by Oscar crying or screaming loudly

Not entirely correct. If the gunshots came first then there could be no woman screaming after that. There has been at least one witness that has said that there was a woman screaming after one loud bang and that the woman screaming stopped after the last loud bang. The ballistic expert testimony backs up this testimony by the witness that heard the loud bangs as bang..........bangbangbang. The door shows that there was two hits to it from the cricket bat. The cricket bat also shows the two hits to the door.

IMO it is going to be up to the judge to make a determination as to which came first.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

Not entirely correct. If the gunshots came first then there could be no woman screaming after that. There has been at least one witness that has said that there was a woman screaming after one loud bang and that the woman screaming stopped after the last loud bang. The ballistic expert testimony backs up this testimony by the witness that heard the loud bangs as bang..........bangbangbang. The door shows that there was two hits to it from the cricket bat. The cricket bat also shows the two hits to the door.

IMO it is going to be up to the judge to make a determination as to which came first.

MOO

Exactly - which is why I don't think it was a woman screaming.

 

[Trooper]

Yes, but that kind of bias can cause a person to not even consider the other person's story or the slight possibility that their story is true. It causes one to be deaf to all evidence and find that it all slants in one direction without looking at it objectively. That's one's perogative, but let's not act that that kind of bias means that one is seeking the truth. One is just looking to make all the evidence make someone look as guilty as possible without neutrality.

I don't have to consider Oscars story. he is on trial for murder, and anything, any single thing he says, from my biased position is to be met with the deepest skepticism. He has a motive to tell a particular story. Truth has nothing to do with it. The only and unavoidable truth is that a woman was shot 4 times, by a man who admits he pulled that trigger 4 times.

Anything Oscar says as to why he did that, is entitled to be thoroughly put to one side and the empirical evidence then assessed..

I am not obligated , in any shape of form to take Oscars story as the pinnacle of truth and therefore to be accepted as such. If I was, I'd be blithering away on the Pistorious Family site.


I am not neutral... If I was neutral I wouldn't be on a victim friendly site.

I'd be zipping along on a Murderer Friendly site.

no thanks.

 

[Gavel Rash]

The 3.08 also fits with Burgers account
"Burger said she and her husband woke up just after 3am when they heard the noise, and her husband rushed to the balcony. "She called for help. She screamed terribly and shouted for help. Then I heard a man also call for help. He called for help three times."

Burger said she believed she was hearing the sounds of a robbery in progress and her husband called security guards and asked them to investigate. "Then I heard her screams again," said Burger. "It was like a climax. I heard her anxiety. She was very scared."

Burger then heard shots, with a longer pause between the first and second shot than the rest. "It was bang.....bang, bang, bang," she said.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201403032251.html

And the is the states case right there with the matching forensics and ballistics. Hard to refute the ears and the march ups. Although as I previously said Nel has some heavy cards up his leave to call an early conclusion with forth coming witness statements yet to be heard. Ie Netcare..and other neighbours to be possibly called. The neighbours other than Stipp are relatively distanced from home yet still heard the commotion.