Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

[zwiebel]

OW: 'I find it peculiar...' (that she heard shots in rapid succession).

 

[katydid23]

If the toilet light was not working, and you went to the toilet in the middle of the night, would you close and lock the door, making it pitch black inside?

 

[MeeBee]

This is too much. Just get on with it. He's got nothing more to say...

 

[lisasalinger]

It must be really bizarre to be the accused and sit there and listen to all of these people try to figure out what exactly you did.

It's kind of surreal... he's sitting there, he knows what he did. Yet all of these people are going around and around trying to figure it out.

 

[Peliman]

I have to say she does seem honest. And the defense has quite an uphill climb explaining the woman's and man's voices. But what does she mean? Were they intermingled? Or did she hear a woman and then a man and the a woman...? I can see, personally how a man under extreme duress can sound like a woman. Another witness has testified that she mistook the cries for a woman when it was Oscar.

That said, I do not like this attorney. He's just insufferable.

I think that witness said it sounded like a woman but her husband said it wasn't.

 

[zwiebel]

OW wants to know if she would find it 'irreconcilable' if he puts it to her there were the sounds of a cricket bat.

AS finds it hard to agree.

He brings up 'the state of alertness' he extracted from her earlier to imply her missing the sound of a fourth shot is not believable.

 

[kaos]

Why isn't Nel objecting with saying "asked and answered" to half of this cross?

 

[MeeBee]

I think that witness said it sounded like a woman but her husband said it wasn't.

That's the one. He said, no, that's Oscar.

 

[Val1]

How? They're not supposed to be watching the testimony, are they?

I would imagine headlines would have conveyed how the Burgers had gotten grilled, no need to watch their testimony per se.

 

[MeeBee]

I have to say I have quite the crush on Mr. Nel. I get all :blushing: when he speaks.

 

[Trooper]

wait not the end of her evidence. more

do yuou agree that you are not in a position to estimate of time it took . each event..

no I cant separate each event, the coming and going from balcony to balcony into measurable times.


if you estimate something to be a few moments, it might be longer??

the moments between the shots was shorter, than the shots from the large balcony.


a reference to the time frame. the call to Pieter Baba.

baba said there were gunshots, and I must come to where they are coming. babe must come.

another neighbor was ringing baba also , Mr N.

we do know there was a call made by your husband to Baba?? I don't know. I only know he rang security. he couldn't get thru the first time.. he got thru the second time. he got thru, but it wasn't answered. it rang. not answered.

no answer when he rang the flying squad. this was made prior to baba call security call.


you spoke about the people in your home that night.

where does this helper stay. at the ground level, beside the house.

and her discussion was that she heard the shouting. the screaming. ( she has to correct him on this every time ) .


I put it to you. . the helper says, she fell asleep and was awoken by crying. I thought it was a baby. I was still listening to the crying when I heard BOOM BOOM BOOM . ...

now this is a reference to crying did you hear crying?? no. . I heard screaming.


now to the light in the window

I put it to you, that the iight was not operative. would ou accept that?? no. I cannot accept that. I saw the light.

is this perhaps a mistake by your husband which you took on? no. I saw what I saw..

madame. I find it somewhat difficult. if a witness is to make reasonable concession.. you wont make a reasonable concession.

Annette. I hear what you are saying. but its a concession I cannot make becase it isn't true. I saw the light.


the slar?? I don't know what the oh sounds , sorry.

I described as 3 shots rapid succession, first shots. then 3 shots rapid succession.

is there any way, you could distinguish between 2 sounds?? my recollection is 3 large sounds in rapid succession.

is I propose that the second volley, I know oyou call it shots, but I call it cricket bats. ?? could it have been cricket bat??

I would struggle with the rapid succession. too rapid for a cricket bat

mrs stipp when yu say yu heard the sounds of the second shots, where were you/?

on the big balcony husband was inside trying to get dressed and phoning people.

he was phoning and dressing, phone chunked up under the ear.


he says, your husband says. while I was on the phone, thinking of what number to dial next, I heard another loud sound. that while he was o the phone, not getting dressed..

he was getting dressed and phoning at the same time


he was already on the phone prior to the 2nd shot.


this call your husband made, which he didn't get thru. how do you know?

oldwage says he DID get thru on the first occasion.. is he lying??

he DID get thru. it wasn't answered. ( that is , its rings,

hahah the jUDGE hauls him up@!

 

[katydid23]

I wonder if people will be as critical of OP if he takes the stand? Will they say he was defensive or unreliable, if his testimony does not match his statement?

 

[james83]

What is the relevance of Stipp making a mistake with the phone call?, just shut up and get on with it GRRRRRRRRRRRR.

 

[MeeBee]

He's making points right now but he could make them quicker and put more emphasis on them. All this droning is making me go cross eyed.

 

[Viper]

The claim that the light was not working must be what OP is going to say when he testifies. No one else could know if it was working or not that night. More nonsense stacked upon nonsense.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh gosh. OW quibbling over what time her husband was making calls/getting dressed. Witness saying her husband was doing both at the same time.

OW says her husband DID get through on the first time. Husband made a mistake and she is making the same mistake.

Judge: How is it a mistake repeating what her husband told her? The husband is the one who made the mistake. This witness is only repeating what her husband told her.

 

[MeeBee]

It does seem husband and wife have agreed on what they heard.

 

[sorrell skye]

Go My Lady!!!!

"How is it a mistake?"

Judge Masipa has been paying VERY close attention to Mrs. Stipp's testimony and to Oldwage's cross of her.

I think My Lady is seeing straight through Oldwages's BS.

 

[lisasalinger]

Look at the faces of the two lawyers behind Oldwage. Even they look annoyed.

 

[zwiebel]

OW in a debate with the judge again......he is a very foolish defence. Judge is now cross examining HIM!