Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

[luvmygarden]

This is such a sad story. What went from a guy with the greatest accomplishment of his life to a very bad decision. It was all in OP's decision making skills and temperament that has brought a man down. The biggest loss is a Human Life who happens to not be able to overcome circumstances in 5-10-20 yrs. Oscar P will get his second chance not so for Reeva and her family and friends. You have to feel bad for OP's family too. But they still have OP.

 

[Feynman]

Seriously - from complaining about her touching someone's arm, you can immediately jump to him being furious enough on Feb 14 to murder her?

I cannot make that leap.

No offense, and I get a lot out of your observations, but that's a bit of a strawman. Of course, no one should make the leap you've drawn above. But we now have

1. "We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way."

Versus

2. "I do everything to make you happy and to not say anything to rock the boat with you... I have been upset by you for two days now." "I’m scared of you sometimes and how you snap at me and how you will act with me." "I just want to love and be loved. Be happy and make someone so happy ... Maybe we can’t do that for each other. Because right now I know you aren't happy and I’m certainly very unhappy and sad.”

That's a huge difference - no matter what the other 90% say. That's a relationship in trouble - especially for such a young relationship. It suggests, strongly, that OP is lying about this relationship. And I think we now know, definitively, that his DT was attempting to lie about the Tasha's incident. What else is he/they lying about? And why does OP need to lie at all?

 

[kittychi]

We don't actually know what OP called RS but I imagine it was something like or wh**re as she pointedly said she did not feel like a lady that evening but that is only a guess. In fact most of what was said obviously was not restated in the text but she was very, very upset about whatever it was he called her at the engagement party. I feel we are going to hear much more about his attitude tomorrow.

Although only 10 per cent of the calls were about him being controlling, abusive etc, simplified one could view it as being one 1 day in every 10 he was controlling, abusive, unkind, hurtful. She must have been on tenterhooks the whole time wondering when next she was going to be scared, very scared, frightened or hurt in some way.

Premeditated in SA law is somewhat different to other countries. It doesn't necessary involve preplanning. It can be shooting through the door at an unseen/unknown person several times, ie having shot once he made no attempt to stop shooting in the full knowledge that, by continuing, the likelihood was that whoever was behind the door would be killed.

If you accept Reeva did scream after the first bullet, he continued firing at her three more times knowing in all probability he would kill her.

BBM: If he indeed called her a or , I am adding misogynist to that list.

 

[Cherwell]

The bathroom tiles ......

Am I right in thinking that there were broken tiles on the bathroom floor? If so, that pretty much proves that the damage to them was done that day. Otherwise the housekeeper would have cleared them up. (Whereas it can be argued that the damage to the bedroom door & bath panel could have been done at some other time.)

So if OP smashed at the bathroom wall with his bat, breaking the tiles, could that be the sounds heard earlier?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Not wanting to be contrary here but I would think the other way around, i.e. if there was still gun powder residue on the light-switch then he had put the light on prior to shooting as if he turned the light on after shooting it would have rubbed the residue off... well probably not all of it, but I still don't see the logic of, there was residue therefore he must have turned the light on afterwards!

I think the defence will state that it was transferred from his hand after the shooting but as I said earlier the gunshot residue could have been on the switch before the shooting because OP goes to a shooting range and was once stopped at an airport because of gun shot residue .

 

[Cherwell]

Is it just me or has nobody in the forum ever shouted at their partner or stormed off in a huff, or left anyplace early, or sent a text if you've fell out?

Certainly, but most of us haven't shot them dead afterwards.

 

[james83]

Is it just me or has nobody in the forum ever shouted at their partner or stormed off in a huff, or left anyplace early, or sent a text if you've fell out?

Jeez, I must really live on the edge in this saintly world of ours.







* I don't really want you to tell me about your personal life

Can say with certainty ive never had a partner be scared of me

 

[minor4th]

No offense, and I get a lot out of your observations, but that's a bit of a strawman. Of course, no one should make the leap you've drawn above. But we now have

1. "We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way."

Versus

2. "I do everything to make you happy and to not say anything to rock the boat with you... I have been upset by you for two days now." "I’m scared of you sometimes and how you snap at me and how you will act with me." "I just want to love and be loved. Be happy and make someone so happy ... Maybe we can’t do that for each other. Because right now I know you aren't happy and I’m certainly very unhappy and sad.”

That's a huge difference - no matter what the other 90% say. That's a relationship in trouble - especially for such a young relationship. It suggests, strongly, that OP is lying about this relationship. And I think we now know, definitively, that his DT was attempting to lie about the Tasha's incident. What else is he/they lying about? And why does OP need to lie at all?

I agree to the discrepancy with his statement if it turns out they were still having these problems at the time of the shooting.

There are many comments that have taken the texts and concluded that he was an abuser and have thus concluded that he got caught up in a jealous rage and therefore intentionally shot and killed his girlfriend.

 

[minor4th]

I think the defence will state that it was transferred from his hand after the shooting but as I said earlier the gunshot residue could have been on the switch before the shooting because OP goes to a shooting range and was once stopped at an airport because of gun shot residue .

The original question is about the light being on and there's no one saying the light was on when he shot her with the initial bangs.

 

[katydid23]

So, from the above we have Sam's testimony, the ex-girlfriend who alleged he cheated on her. Does screaming or shouting at someone constitute an abusive relationship? My dad has lost his temper with my mum lots of times, they've both yelled at each other many times. Their relationship isn't at all abusive. If Sam has included her friends in her testimony it's not been corroborated for some reason and as such is not evidence.

Jealousy is only attributable to an abusive relationship if you act upon it.

The shooting off of firearms you mentioned has nothing whatsoever to do with an abusive relationship.

The Black Talon bullets have nothing whatsoever to do with an abusive relationship.

What do we have left from the above? All we have left is that same old chestnut yet again. The ear-witnesses.

Is screaming or shouting at one's gf and her friends abusive? I think it is an indication of an aggressive and angry person. And it does border upon abuse.

How do we know if he acted upon it or not? Perhaps he did. He apparently had a public tantrum which forced Reeva to leave an engagement party.

The shooting off of firearms indicates an out of control behavior and an impulsive reckless nature. Combining that with jealousy is a very dangerous mix. Add to that the black talons and you have a brutal death.

All of the above adds credence to the testimony of the five ear witnesses who claim to have heard a woman screaming in terror that night. :moo:

 

[Gavel Rash]

I think the defence will state that it was transferred from his hand after the shooting but as I said earlier the gunshot residue could have been on the switch before the shooting because OP goes to a shooting range and was once stopped at an airport because of gun shot residue .

We don't know when or with what the bedroom door hole was made and if prior to dash down hall to gun burglar down then residue from this shot make have been transferred.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

The original question is about the light being on and there's no one saying the light was on when he shot her with the initial bangs.

I thought she had testified that the lights were on before the first bangs ?

 

[Viper]

They weren't with him that night. I thought the impression WAS that they remained in garden???

Impressions are funny! Like fairy tales! Check OPS twitter photos, the blonde / tan one is in bed with him before he gets up to start the day. He may have put them out as the fighting continued for hours that night and the dogs would have been very concerned. But they are house dogs, and would be comforting to have close by; dogs have great hearing and are very territorial and protective of their masters. Cheers to Oscar for being a dog lover! But he's still guilty IMO.

 

[crasshopper]

Also, when are they going to get to the SEX or lack thereof on Valentine's day?!

 

[Gavel Rash]

I thought she had testified that the lights were on before the first bangs ?

At the same instance i heard the bangs,
i looked out and saw the light on.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Also, when are they going to get to the SEX or lack thereof on Valentine's day?!

Its on the stick in the safe......?

 

[Gryffindor]

Reeva's not wanting to "rock the boat" is the most indicative phrase of someone being fearful of the repercussions for herself . . . .

 

[Gavel Rash]

From a website supporting women....

How can I recognise abuse?
You might be unsure if what your friend or relative is experiencing is ‘abuse’. Maybe you just have some sense that something is ‘wrong’ in her relationship. Sometimes there may be signs that indicate that there is abuse. But often there will be nothing obvious. Signs that someone is being abused
She seems afraid of her partner or is always very anxious to please him or her.
She has stopped seeing her friends or family, or cuts phone conversations short when her partner is in the room.
Her partner often criticises her or humiliates her in front of other people.
She says her partner pressures or forces her to do sexual things.
Her partner often orders her about or makes all the decisions (for example, her partner controls all the money, tells her who she can see and what she can do).
She often talks about her partner’s ‘jealousy’, ‘bad temper’ or ‘possessiveness’.
She has become anxious or depressed, has lost her confidence, or is unusually quiet.
She has physical injuries (bruises, broken bones, sprains, cuts etc). She may give unlikely explanations for physical injuries.
Her children seem afraid of her partner, have behaviour problems, or are very withdrawn or anxious.
She is reluctant to leave her children with her partner.
After she has left the relationship, her partner is constantly calling her, harassing her, following her, coming to her house or waiting outside.

 

[minor4th]

I thought she had testified that the lights were on before the first bangs ?

No, she hadn't looked out the window yet.

 

[Feynman]

Yes, I very well might do that if I had that person's number on speed dial and knew that I could rely on them to do as I requested. Sure.

Of course, we now know Stander couldn't be relied upon. I still understand your point though (same as mine previously).