Trial Discussion Thread #15

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  • #741
I'm not surprised that there is damage to other parts of OP's house.

At this point, we don't know when the damage to the master bedroom door or to the downstairs lounge window occurred (although I don't believe the lounge window was broken on the night OP killed Reeva).

Household damage is extremely common in DV situations.

How, when, & why did the master bedroom door get damaged? Why is there an apparent projectile hole through the door? I'm inclined to believe OP caused this, given his history of shooting in anger. Why is the lower portion of the door cracked as if it had been violently kicked?

How, when, & why did the downstairs lounge window get broken?

I don't personally need to tie all this damage in with the night of the shooting. For me, it's enough that the damage exists, regardless of when it occurred.

I think that may have been Nel's point in introducing the photos of the damage: to illustrate a history of violent behavior that resulted in household damage, and to raise questions as to its origins.

OP will have to offer convincing, innocent explanations for how the damage occurred.
 
  • #742
Yes, it could be very enlightening to know what that was about.

I think, moo....it has been said here earlier that that message may be referring to the lawsuit/and or mess he was in over hurting a guest at his party.
 
  • #743
I was once with a man who seems to be a lot like OP. I was very young and very trusting. He almost killed me within 2 months of dating me.

My ex BF was very smart. He was also cocky in most ways but he, too, had a physical problem ( not a congenital handicap) that he tried desperately to keep hidden. He was repulsed by what he saw as a flaw marring his otherwise extremely handsome appearance. He also liked and could afford a flashy expensive lifestyle. He bought me a Mercedes convertible while we were dating. A few weeks later, he tried to run over me in a parking lot with the same car. Psycho.

He was into collecting guns. ( Not sure if OP collected guns but he had a habit of waving them around in public and in his car).
He had a huge safe built into the basement floor of his new house. He spent thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of dollars on very rare unfired special edition Colts and so forth. He had a custom made shotgun which he used for skeet shooting that had multiple barrels of different sizes. He won trophies for shooting.

This man tried to kill me about a week before we were to get married because in his warped mind, I had " betrayed" him by listening to some very serious things his best friend had to tell me. His best friend called me while he was out of town on business with some " very private" info which would definitely have been publicly damaging to the man. He didn't go after his friend, a large male, who knew what ALL of the secrets were, he went after me, a very small frame young woman for answering my own phone. I listened to his friend, because again, huge " secrets" were told that were true. I needed to know what I was getting into. ( I got OUT).

The day he found out that I knew his dirty big secrets, he threw me across furniture and I smashed into a wall. I was thrown to the floor, then dragged by my hair along the carpet. He was hitting my head with his fists from one side and then the other. He was hitting me and cursing me the entire time. He was in a blind rage. I didn't dare move or speak. I believe he would have shot me in an instant if I had done anything until I saw a clear escape as we moved to a doorway. I was younger and faster and a lot more scared so I could run faster. I ran out and got help from the police.

My ex didn't respect women. He had been my Government and Economics teacher when I was a Sr. in HS years earlier and he didn't respect the girls in his classes then. I had forgotten much of this until a former classmate reminded me not too long ago. He picked one small cheerleader up and threw her around the room, yelling school cheers. He tried to look up skirts, using his hands on our legs. He looked down our tops when he came up behind us, walking around his classroom. He played with our hair during our exams, when we had to concentrate. He stood in the doorway of his classroom at free time and class changes to watch the girls bend over at the water fountain just across the hall from his doorway. He seduced a student a year older than me and got the school principal to allow her to help him in his film darkroom. ( No one knew that there was sex going on. I've heard it from both of them since).

But the things were: Ego and Rage. I think there is a type of man who has extreme ego conflicts. I think OP has because of his legs, and I know why my ex did. There's also an inflated ego component fighting to stay on top- The " macho man" syndrome. with OP, it was because he had won fame and acclaim and I guess money for his running.
With my ex, it was his extremely prestigious government position. He had charisma and he had an extraordinary position created for him in our government.

I think both men had paranoia and also hair-trigger tempers. My ex was very paranoid, mostly related to me and my actions when I was with him. I'm sure this was a long standing pattern for him.
I think OP also had a lot of paranoia and also the same hair trigger rage type of temper.

When certain personality traits and anger combines in some people like this, they want their own pain to stop more than they want anything else in the world. Some kill themselves. Some kill ( or try to kill, or threaten to kill) the woman at their side.. You know, the one they said they love and want and cherish so much. The kind of obsession that brings death.

As a therapist, I would sum it up thusly: A pathological lack of ego boundaries and impulse control. They weren't born this way because their IQs and ability to understand concepts is intact..

JMO.. We probably all know someone with some of these characteristics but it is rare to find several extremely destructive forces in so many areas of one person's personality in the absence of Anti-Social Personality disorder ( also known as a psychopath or sociopath in societal terms). Neither of these men appear to fit the criteria for Anti-Social Personality disorder. They do have a rage disorder under a certain set of circumstances.

Bloody hell! I'm so glad you're out and unharmed. My ex was similar with razor blades, kitchen knives, over settees, strangling, sitting on, slapping, dragging etc. No disability. Well a horrific, terrifying psychotic temper as a disability. And the catchphrase " You think that's bad, wait and see what I can do when I'm sober" He was sober 99% of his abuse towards me!

You don't like it when I'm angry, so don't make me angry" x x
 
  • #744
Thanks Sorrel. I am leaning towards it being significant in some important way, because Mr. Nel took so much time getting details about it from the police testimony put in to evidence along with the photos of it.

This broken window is IMO a hint at where the events that night took a turn for the worse. If not then it definitely means something important or we would not even know about it, JMO. :smile:

Either the ground level window was broken that night, or OP wasn't afraid enough of intruders to have it fixed immediately or even board it up temporarily.
 
  • #745
I don't think the broken window in the downstairs lounge occurred on the night Reeva was killed.

Van Staden testified that there was no broken glass on the ground.

If the window had been broken that night, there would have been broken glass on the ground.

I think the damage to the lounge window raises questions.

At the very least, it makes me wonder about possible prior violent episodes.

I don't think OP would have had enough time to go outside and clean up broken glass before carrying Reeva downstairs as Stander, Stander's daughter, Baba, and Dr. Stipp arrived.

Maybe the broken window was from a previous incident of someone trying to break in :crazy:.. seriously though, does anyone know if there is a photo available for that .. I've looked on Juror #13's blog, and google images, and can't find anything. I'm interested to know whether it is more of a crack which wouldn't necessarily splinter, than a shatter where there probably would be pieces of glass on the ground.
 
  • #746
I'm not surprised that there is damage to other parts of OP's house.

At this point, we don't know when the damage to the master bedroom door or to the downstairs lounge window occurred (although I don't believe the lounge window was broken on the night OP killed Reeva).

Household damage is extremely common in DV situations.

How, when, & why did the master bedroom door get damaged? Why is there an apparent projectile hole through the door? I'm inclined to believe OP caused this, given his history of shooting in anger. Why is the lower portion of the door cracked as if it had been violently kicked?

How, when, & why did the downstairs lounge window get broken?

I don't personally need to tie all this damage in with the night of the shooting. For me, it's enough that the damage exists, regardless of when it occurred.

I think that may have been Nel's point in introducing the photos of the damage: to illustrate a history of violent behavior that resulted in household damage, and to raise questions as to its origins.

OP will have to offer convincing, innocent explanations for how the damage occurred.
Yes no doubt explanations like I lost my keys and had to break in and shot through it whilst accidentally cleaning my air rifle :-)
 
  • #747
I think, moo....it has been said here earlier that that message may be referring to the lawsuit/and or mess he was in over hurting a guest at his party.
Yes I wondered that or maybe he was going to be investigated for tax ?
His sister was keen to get the dongle out of the safe . Still can't believe that was allowed . It was reported in the press that he had to make a large tax payment last year but I know things written in the press are not always true :-)
It is all guesswork really unless we here about it in cross examination or closing arguments
 
  • #748
Good morning Viper! :)

I've seen the crime scene photo of the black tank top, and I've also scrutinized the CCTV image to try to determine if the two tops are the same or different. I must say that they appear to be the same (to me), but it's hard to tell definitively. The straps of the tank top in the CCTV image don't appear to be dramatically thinner than the straps of the tank top in the crime scene pic. Angles of photos can be deceiving - especially when looking at a tank top shoulder strap, which can get bunched up due to the movement of the shoulder (causing the shoulder strap to appear more narrow than it might actually be).

Even if they are different tops, it seems to me that Reeva was dressed and possibly trying to leave OP's house before he shot & killed her.

The damage to the bedroom door is indeed a curious thing. When OP testifies, I expect Nel will ask him to explain how, when, & why that damage occurred.

I read somewhere lately that the vest top and shorts RS was wearing were OP's .
 
  • #749
Yes I wondered that or maybe he was going to be investigated for tax ?
His sister was keen to get the dongle out of the safe . Still can't believe that was allowed . It was reported in the press that he had to make a large tax payment last year but I know things written in the press are not always true :-)
It is all guesswork really unless we here about it in cross examination or summing up .

BBM:

I've seen this word before......:blushing:....what the heck is a "dongle".??
 
  • #750
Well, there was something about that 'hurdle' Reeva mentioned in a text earlier that day .. and she had then gone on to say that he might need the company of his family that night. We still don't know what that hurdle was or if it was significant in starting some kind of disagreement between them .. but those text communications that day sounded a bit odd, to say the least.

I initially though it may have been the Cassidy Taylor-Memmory incident, that was still unresolved but I think that was resolved in December 2013.
Been having another read through but still none the wiser.

13th February 2013
13h10
RS: It's a difficult a thing to try and console you on because it's a sh***y thing and you're a nice guy. I guess these things happen and we can just hope they work out for the best. You are an amazing person with so many blessings and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far outweigh this hurdle. I can promise you that.
15h21
OP: Thank you so much my angel. x You don't have to my angel. Stay tonight if you like.
OP: I'm just finishing off at Ryan
RS: Thank you Baba. Let me know if you'd like to spend time with M or Carl:) I'm sure you maybe feel like some family time tonight.
15h46:
RS: Angel I am going to go home at like 6. Please stay and do whatever it was you were going to :)
OP: Thank you so much my Angel. x You don't have to my angel. Stay tonight, if you like.
 
  • #751
  • #752
I read somewhere lately that the vest top and shorts RS was wearing were OP's .

I heard rumors about that, but I haven't heard anything during trial that supports the rumor.

I think she was wearing her own clothes.
 
  • #753
BBM:

I've seen this word before......:blushing:....what the heck is a "dongle".??

Haha it's basically a USB stick which is utilised as mobile internet/ 3g capability or Wi-Fi, where there is none.

Although if it was his finance info etc, I'd imagine it was just a straightforward USB stick x
 
  • #754
  • #755
BBM:

I've seen this word before......:blushing:....what the heck is a "dongle".??

It is USB memory stick which stores data :-)
 
  • #756
I initially though it may have been the Cassidy Taylor-Memmory incident, that was still unresolved but I think that was resolved in December 2013.
Been having another read through but still none the wiser.

13th February 2013
13h10
RS: It's a difficult a thing to try and console you on because it's a sh***y thing and you're a nice guy. I guess these things happen and we can just hope they work out for the best. You are an amazing person with so many blessings and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far outweigh this hurdle. I can promise you that.
15h21
OP: Thank you so much my angel. x You don't have to my angel. Stay tonight if you like.
OP: I'm just finishing off at Ryan
RS: Thank you Baba. Let me know if you'd like to spend time with M or Carl:) I'm sure you maybe feel like some family time tonight.
15h46:
RS: Angel I am going to go home at like 6. Please stay and do whatever it was you were going to :)
OP: Thank you so much my Angel. x You don't have to my angel. Stay tonight, if you like.

What's up with all of the "you don't have to be my angel" stuff?
 
  • #757
I initially though it may have been the Cassidy Taylor-Memmory incident, that was still unresolved but I think that was resolved in December 2013.
Been having another read through but still none the wiser.

13th February 2013
13h10
RS: It's a difficult a thing to try and console you on because it's a sh***y thing and you're a nice guy. I guess these things happen and we can just hope they work out for the best. You are an amazing person with so many blessings and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far outweigh this hurdle. I can promise you that.
15h21
OP: Thank you so much my angel. x You don't have to my angel. Stay tonight if you like.
OP: I'm just finishing off at Ryan
RS: Thank you Baba. Let me know if you'd like to spend time with M or Carl:) I'm sure you maybe feel like some family time tonight.
15h46:
RS: Angel I am going to go home at like 6. Please stay and do whatever it was you were going to :)
OP: Thank you so much my Angel. x You don't have to my angel. Stay tonight, if you like.

Snipped from article:

Oscar Pistorius has withdrawn a R2.2 million claim against a woman who was injured at his home in 2009. This comes a week after the athlete was released on R1 million bail for the death of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp at the same house.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-drops-r2-2m-lawsuit-1.1479686#.UznD7ozn99A

The above article is dated March 3, 2013.
 
  • #758
I don't really know where to start quoting things from this link that I just received from a friend, but it has the comments from Reeva's "Joburg Dad" about the relationship of OP and Reeva; I had read it last year but maybe some folks did not see it. So I'm just posting it without my opinion(s):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...as-told-to-back-off-from-Reeva-Steenkamp.html

It seems obvious from their texts that people ( presumably her friends ) were warning her off him, well that was my thought anyway .
 
  • #759
  • #760
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