Trial Discussion Thread #16

[BlueShoe]

Here is the photo that my post was questioning, it is not blood on the glass shower door:

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/10.jpg

There are 12 marks.

Definitely not blood. It looks like small pieces of tape to me. Could it be something used to lift fingerprints?

On Edit: O.K., after reading more comments, it may be blood spots that are too small to see from the photo.

 

[jay-jay]

I believe that it was easy for him to aim in the direction of her no doubt extremely loud blood curdling screams and hit her with the bullets. But if you believe that he needs a visual after the first shot then all he had to do is look under the door to see where she was.

.. but there was no gap under the door

 

[jay-jay]

Now for the bed and duvet blood.

This is all hypothetical now.
Is it possible that OP plunked her down on the bed, while the duvet was there on top of the bed. This could be say, needing to get a better grip so he needed to rest her there for a moment.

Or it could have been more sinsiter, such as attempting to cover her and carry her out to a car and take the body away. He had to change plans when others called and were about to be at his home. So he abandoned the duvet covering aspect and picked her up and was soon seen at the top of the stairs carrying her down.

And of course Nel did not elaborate, and experts said that they did not even test the blood above the headboard.

I think the duvet would've had far more blood on it though, if that were the case .. although I can't quite remember if it's the top/outside of the duvet that I'm thinking of but I'm pretty sure I've seen the underside/folded bit too (I may be wrong on that, can't remember now).

I remember watching the live evidence being presented by the blood spatter expert and he didn't appear think there was anything significant about the blood on the wall by the head of the bed .. he just agreed that it would've been due to arterial spurt and just left it at that, so I don't think there is anything more significant about that one.

 

[jay-jay]

Yes in the corner edge face on to the door. I'm going by trajectory visuals and sleuthing, as per the forum. I dismissed no stats, merely considered my OWN

No, I get that .. but I'm just a bit confused about why a different scenario would need to be put forward when a definite one has already been provided by the ballistics expert

 

[Insp.Dots]

Hummm... I thought that OP didn't hear anything that night, just a sound in the bathroom that later became the sound of the window opening. Can't recall reading his words to the Court about him screaming like a woman or arguing with himself, loudly, for 17 minutes, before finally calling Stander...

You have lost me once again......I was responding to a post about OP needing to scream like a woman.....to replicate what his defense are saying he did. Not sure what point you are trying to make?

 

[DebinGA]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/oscar-pistorius-trial--the-invisible-witness-141058347.html

Oscar Pistorius Trial: The Invisible Witness

 

[Viper]

.. but there was no gap under the door

BIB. Some might say... But I disagree. It is a wooden door passing over a marble floor, there is a gap, enough to see where someone's standing or sitting if they are on the floor.

But as I said I do not believe OP needed to see anything, a woman screaming in pain with the devastating damage that the first bullet did to her hip? Yes he would be able to aim at the source of that sound - her mouth.

 

[soozieqtips]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/oscar-pistorius-trial--the-invisible-witness-141058347.html

Oscar Pistorius Trial: The Invisible Witness

Thanks for the link to that article. It was interesting to read, especially about how rich people choose secure gated communities so they can leave their windows open and doors unlocked. Anyone complaining about being in constant fear of intruders would surely not do that. OP wasn't paranoid about a break in because the actions he DIDN'T take to secure his home prove it. I live by the seaside in the UK and it's pretty quiet round here, but I still shut all the windows and lock up before I go to bed - and I'm not paranoid about break-ins, I'm just security conscious. OP wasn't, so I'd like to know how the judge will square his words with his actions.

 

[jay-jay]

BIB. Because they keep getting major things wrong and confusing people! :smile:

Do you believe batman's conclusion that the gunshot sounds came before the bat sounds, now that you have had an opportunity to weigh his thought process along side other testimony and evidence? Of course not.

And now blood spatter guy looks at blood spatter, cast off, drops, whatever and his testimony lends to Reeva being alive, breathing and heart pumping, all the way until precisely when OP is bringing her down the stairs. But if you weigh his observations and conclusions against the autopsy findings and the horrific wounds that Reeva sustained then many of his opinions are wrong as well.

BTW I have absolutely no issues with bullets guy! :floorlaugh:

Yes, absolutely .. that's what I mean .. the ballistics guy is the one guy who really did know what he was talking about! :thumb:

 

[shane13]

I answered your post Shane and said that I never saw the live beginning but that Karen Maughan had tweeted from the court that day that the phone wasn't handed over to the police until two weeks after the incident.

I missed that reply thanks.
I even sent you a PM, that i never got a reply to, as I can't stay on the board indefinitely. Even crashes for me quite a lot.

 

[jay-jay]

I think giving him 4 mins is very generous of you and even being so generous it still leaves a shocking time lapse
I am sometimes amazed by how much I can do when I have something in the microwave for say just two minutes .

Wow, that is a brilliant comparison .. yes, I know what you mean, I get tons done in that time!

 

[jay-jay]

With this in mind does anyone know if they tested or have any fingerprints on the door? Ie: to confirm if panels were pulled out etc.

Also any of Reeva's fingerprints on door or in toilet?......
I imagined myself (to test OP's version) if I was listening for an intruder I would maybe go close up to the door with my hands against it and listening.

Also.....were there fingerprints on the window. IF OP didn't open the window then he must then presume the intruder (Reeva) opened it so IF true her prints would surely show?

I'm not sure fingerprinting would reveal anything much as both OP and Reeva's fingerprints would've been in various places anyway, just from day to day living there.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Yes, absolutely .. that's what I mean .. the ballistics guy is the one guy who really did know what he was talking about! :thumb:

I do think sometimes that the affectionately called bat man could just have been incredibly nervous and not good at presenting his own evidence in front of the whole world? At first I thought he seemed just out of his depth .

.I have seen very talented performances by children in a dress rehearsal that have literally gone to pieces and talked gibberish in front of the audience .

I respect everyone of the specialists and witnesses that have spoken for the prosecution under such scrutiny
I mean look how Roux managed to get a photographer to confirm a bat had moved when it hadn't ? Fortunately the judge will realise that and look at all the facts for herself with the help of her assessors.

 

[soozieqtips]

I missed that reply thanks.
I even sent you a PM, that i never got a reply to, as I can't stay on the board indefinitely. Even crashes for me quite a lot.

Talking about PM's, I checked my settings in the control panel, and under 'messages' the boxes were unchecked for receiving or sending messages to anyone who wasn't in my contacts. You can send a message, but if you're not on the recipient's contact list, they won't get it, and you won't know they didn't get it!

 

[Insp.Dots]

I'm not sure fingerprinting would reveal anything much as both OP and Reeva's fingerprints would've been in various places anyway, just from day to day living there.

Yes you're probably right, but may have helped with the door. As to whether OP pulled panels. And whether the bat was used as a battering ram or swung....same result though I guess

 

[screecher]

Thanks for the link to that article. It was interesting to read, especially about how rich people choose secure gated communities so they can leave their windows open and doors unlocked. Anyone complaining about being in constant fear of intruders would surely not do that. OP wasn't paranoid about a break in because the actions he DIDN'T take to secure his home prove it. I live by the seaside in the UK and it's pretty quiet round here, but I still shut all the windows and lock up before I go to bed - and I'm not paranoid about break-ins, I'm just security conscious. OP wasn't, so I'd like to know how the judge will square his words with his actions.

BBM

I don't believe killer was paranoid at all. He's just too arrogant and entitled to feel such an emotion.

IMO.

 

[jay-jay]

Fair point and I did note some of the men wailing could indeed be misconstrued as women's wails.

That's true .. but I think the kind of wailing in grief we see in things like the footage of the families of the victims of the Malysian air crash/disappearance is lower in pitch than screaming (screaming for your life) .. and a man screaming would still have a male tone about it, at least I am pretty sure it would have.

 

[shane13]

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Tuesday, 25 March 2014, Session 1 - YouTube

Start at 1:10

Thanks but...

1. Still not what I am talking about: The Nel stipulation at the start of last Tuesday's Court Session that has been excised from videos.

2. Where does anyone say this is from "the 5th phone taken from the crime scene". All news reports said that people were flying to Apple etc were about "the 4th phone." So I presume he's giving testimony about what was on the 4th phone unless I hear the words from me just above.
.

 

[shane13]

Talking about PM's, I checked my settings in the control panel, and under 'messages' the boxes were unchecked for receiving or sending messages to anyone who wasn't in my contacts. You can send a message, but if you're not on the recipient's contact list, they won't get it, and you won't know they didn't get it!

Hmmm.
Thanks much for this.

This is not the way I thought it worked, and the way I think it used to work.
Maybe Mods can say something becuase this is either new or I do/didn't understand.

Thanks again, Sooz.

 

[steveml]

Thanks but...

1. Still not what I am talking about: The Nel stipulation at the start of last Tuesday's Court Session that has been excised from videos.

2. Where does anyone say this is from "the 5th phone taken from the crime scene". All news reports said that people were flying to Apple etc were about "the 4th phone." So I presume he's giving testimony about what was on the 4th phone unless I hear the words from me just above.
.

Are you not perhaps confusing the 1 phone that looked like 2?

i.e. 1 part phone back and 1 part cover, that was initially thought to be two phones.