Trial Discussion Thread #17

[TorisMom003]

There's some kind of disconnect here - if he really believes there is someone in the bathroom who is about to shoot him and hurt Reeva, then he has no time to wait 3 minutes for security, he has no time to get his legs on and unlock the door, and he cannot reliably get out of the bedroom and down the stairs with no legs without getting shot.

He did stay somewhat behind the corner of the wall while he shot towards the toilet, or so it seems from the trajectory of the bullets. I don't understand why it is hard to understand why he would do this if he really thought he and Reeva were about to be shot. Forget for a minute whether it was reasonable or not for him to think that.

OP went charging down a dark corridor and rounded how many corners to get to the toilet room door? OP went to the toilet room door. OP went to the perceived threat. Instead, OP could have simply told Reeva to get behind him, with him behind the corner of the bedroom that goes into the corridor and shot anyone that came at them. If he had done this, since he now claims that he knew Reeva was awake, he would have immediately known who was in the toilet room. This would ensure, if in fact it was an intruder, that he and Reeva both would have been safe.

It would take less time to do what I suggested than it would for him to go towards the perceived threat while yelling twice and letting the intruder know his location.

And to ask someone to forget about if what OP did was reasonable or not is, IMO, unreasonable.

 

[steveml]

There were definitely more bullets left in the gun .. I was pretty sure I heard/read somewhere there were two left in there, but someone here said earlier that there was one left in the chamber .. so now I'm not sure which of the two it is, but there were definitely either one or two left.

Thanks jay-jay.

I'm gonna have a look back at that. I remember that the hammer was pulled back on the gun (in the cocked position) when it was found, although I got a bit too involved listening to other parts of the trial and don't remember much about the bullets.

 

[minor4th]

Noisy Fan - I appreciate your presentation of the defense case and attempt to get people to look at this from a different perspective. I don't think it's really being thought through all the way through if anyone thinks they would hit the alarm button and wait for security when an armed burglar is a few feet away and you have a gun that you can use to stop them from hurting you and your girlfriend.

But that's just me ....

 

[Noisy Fan]

BIB. OP warned the silent sinister intruder too! "Get out of my house!" Mr. Intruder. But OP did not give the intruder the opportunity to get out of his house, he murdered the poor unarmed and unthreatening intruder with four shots, three of them hit the intruder including one bullet to the intruder's head. Seems unfair and unlawful to kill a human being under those circumstances.

If you gave that warning and they did not immediately surrender would you hesitate shooting them if you thought they were coming at you?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Oh dear, and now my girlfriend is in bed on her own totally exposed rather than escaping out of the house to safety, and it's all because i heard a noise and went charging out of the bedroom with my gun without saying a single word.

Been busy this evening so have a lot to catch up on but thought i would just throw this thought into the pot again
We are supposed to believe that Reeva didn't answer when OP shouted for her to call the police the first time because she had misunderstood and thought there was in fact an intruder in the house .
So with that in mind why on earth would she be moving around and making a noise that he could hear her when he arrived at the entrance to the bathroom .
A terrified woman would be as quiet as a mouse and would certainly not be moving . After hearing footsteps heading towards her she would just be listening
Bearing in mind how bad his hearing is when it suits him it is amazing that he heard someone trying their very hardest to be quiet .
JMOO

 

[minor4th]

OP went charging down a dark corridor and rounded how many corners to get to the toilet room door? OP went to the toilet room door. OP went to the perceived threat. Instead, OP could have simply told Reeva to get behind him, with him behind the corner of the bedroom that goes into the corridor and shot anyone that came at them. If he had done this, since he now claims that he knew Reeva was awake, he would have immediately known who was in the toilet room. This would ensure, if in fact it was an intruder, that he and Reeva both would have been safe.

It would take less time to do what I suggested than it would for him to go towards the perceived threat while yelling twice and letting the intruder know his location.

And to ask someone to forget about if what OP did was reasonable or not is, IMO, unreasonable.

I don't really understand your scenario I guess. It's so dark in the bedroom he can't see - danger is imminent (he didn't know they were in the toilet room until he had a visual of the bathroom).

 

[steveml]

OP went charging down a dark corridor and rounded how many corners to get to the toilet room door? OP went to the toilet room door. OP went to the perceived threat. Instead, OP could have simply told Reeva to get behind him, with him behind the corner of the bedroom that goes into the corridor and shot anyone that came at them. If he had done this, since he now claims that he knew Reeva was awake, he would have immediately known who was in the toilet room. This would ensure, if in fact it was an intruder, that he and Reeva both would have been safe.

It would take less time to do what I suggested than it would for him to go towards the perceived threat while yelling twice and letting the intruder know his location.

And to ask someone to forget about if what OP did was reasonable or not is, IMO, unreasonable.

I see what you mean. But is it so unreasonable that the only alternative explanation is that he intentionally murdered Reeva?

 

[TorisMom003]

You make jokes while one woman is dead and another person faces a minimum of 25 years in prison?

Perhaps because the defense/OP story is laughable. It is extremely sad and upsetting that Reeva was shot and killed. It was also completely avoidable if OP had only used the brain God gave him, IF it was in fact an accident. However, since OP decided to leave his "beloved's" side the second he was told she was in fact dead then I don't think that OP really gave a d@mn about Reeva at all or at least not as much as he claims he did.

MOO

 

[james83]

As well, if you think about it, once Oscar got between the threat and Reeva, he most assuredly warned her by shouting out loud ...

And seeing as we are playing these silly games tonight, the point where Oscar stars shouting in the hallway, is the point where this made up intruder pumps him full of bullets isn't it according to your rules?.

 

[TorisMom003]

I see what you mean. But is it so unreasonable that the only alternative explanation is that he intentionally murdered Reeva?

That with other things added to it? Yes that is my only alternative explanation. This case can not be looked at by one piece at a time. The entire thing needs to be looked at together. Everything that the State has presented as evidence, OP's Stories, the entire thing. I feel that bits and pieces of this are being taken out and said that those things make sense when separate from everything else, but when all put together it just does not add up for me.

MOO

 

[james83]

I don't really understand your scenario I guess. It's so dark in the bedroom he can't see - danger is imminent (he didn't know they were in the toilet room until he had a visual of the bathroom).

Yeah, because of course with Oscar, he hears the bathroom window sliding open but doesn't hear the toilet door shutting or the key turning in the lock, of course he doesn't.

 

[soozieqtips]

That's certainly not a fact. It's a theory put to the court by the PT via Mangena. Don't be surprised if Roux and crew attempt to demolish it.

I heard his testimony and I don't believe it was a theory put forward. He was very precise with the details and explained exactly why the hip shot must have been first, so I take that as a fact - a fact entered as evidence by the PT. Until that fact has been credibly demolished, then there's no reason to assume the ballistics expert doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[minor4th]

Yeah, because of course with Oscar, he hears the bathroom window sliding open but doesn't hear the toilet door shutting or the key turning in the lock, of course he doesn't.

I don't understand why that seems hard to believe either.

 

[jay-jay]

Just a quick thing about the shoulder .. while I remember. I quite often suffer with pain in one or other of my shoulders, and I actually find it more comfortable to sleep on the one which is painful. I'm not sure how to describe it but it's sortof as if it feels better by having something to push against .. if I lay on the other shoulder and then leave the painful one free, then I find the pain gradually increases even further because it has no support. Obviously it depends on the person and how they feel the most comfortable when they've got a bad shoulder .. but .. having a bad shoulder doesn't automatically mean that it would be the other shoulder you feel more comfortable sleeping on, as I said, I've always felt more comfortable sleeping on it.

 

[whiterum]

While you were guessing, you too have been killed.

And whilst OP was supposedly guessing an intruder was in his toilet Reeva was killed and he is alive !!

 

[Viper]

Toilet room door has nothing to do with it at this early point. They are in the bathroom proper, possibly on their way to the bedroom.

BIB. OP says he hears the window open, so you say Mr. Intruder is in the bathroom proper, ok I follow you. OP gets to the bathroom proper and does not see anyone, he sees a door. He hears something, he will probably say it was the door handle, I'm sure. But at this pint Mr. Intruder has not replied to OPs demand that Mr. Intruder get out of OPs house. And Mr. Intruder has not threatened anyone's life. Heck, Mr. Intruder has not said a word or even stuck his head out from behind the locked door. And yet there is vulnerable, scared OP with a lethal weapon at the ready, standing at the bathroom entry with cover from the bathroom hallway wall, and OP decides and does savagely murder the poor unarmed and unthreatening Mr. Intruder with four bullets, three of them hitting Mr. Intruder with one through his head.

 

[Noisy Fan]

Perhaps because the defense/OP story is laughable. It is extremely sad and upsetting that Reeva was shot and killed. It was also completely avoidable if OP had only used the brain God gave him, IF it was in fact an accident. However, since OP decided to leave his "beloved's" side the second he was told she was in fact dead then I don't think that OP really gave a d@mn about Reeva at all or at least not as much as he claims he did.

MOO

Do you really mean to say sad maybe? Sad that a grown man can have such a juvenile attitude around guns. Sad that a grown man could be so paranoid that he mistakes his girlfriend for an intruder and kills her?

 

[minor4th]

BIB. OP says he hears the window open, so you say Mr. Intruder is in the bathroom proper, ok I follow you. OP gets to the bathroom proper and does not see anyone, he sees a door. He hears something, he will probably say it was the door handle, I'm sure. But at this pint Mr. Intruder has not replied to OPs demand that Mr. Intruder get out of OPs house. And Mr. Intruder has not threatened anyone's life. Heck, Mr. Intruder has not said a word or even stuck his head out from behind the locked door. And yet there is vulnerable, scared OP with a lethal weapon at the ready, standing at the bathroom entry with cover from the bathroom hallway wall, and OP decides and does savagely murder the poor unarmed and unthreatening Mr. Intruder with four bullets, three of them hitting Mr. Intruder with one through his head.

But you changed the scenario. The intruder is not unarmed or unthreatening. He's armed and he's about to enter the room shooting.

 

[james83]

I don't understand why that seems hard to believe either.

Naturally

 

[soozieqtips]

As well, if you think about it, once Oscar got between the threat and Reeva, he most assuredly warned her by shouting out loud ...

BBM - But he didn't wonder why she hadn't made a sound when he yelled for her to call the police. That's when he should have wondered if it could have been her in the toilet... not later after he'd shot her dead.