Trial Discussion Thread #17

[Really?]

And is it safer to give audio clues to your whereabouts rather than just advancing in silence?

I'm telling ya'll.....his story is carp.....yawn...:facepalm:.....booooooring.

note to OP....never attempt a career in screen writing, please. Thanks.

lease:

 

[Feynman]

excerpted quote:

I imagine he was creeping along the hallway until he got close the the entrance and shouted for Reeva to call the police and warned the perceived intruder to get out of his house..

The closer he gets to the bathroom, the sillier "get of my house" seems to me.

 

[Noisy Fan]

Really? So now our hero, who has "a sense of terror rushing over him", and has images of rape, torture, mutilation, and other violations of the UN Charter dancing in his brain, is all of a sudden James Bond, perhaps sipping a martini along the way, quietly negotiating the hallway, calculating his distance from Reeva and the bed every step of the way so that at the perfect moment he can demand, perhaps in a woman's voice, "Get out of my house!" (how is not explained). Is that the picture we get from reading

"I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed."

You know ... the way police converge on a suspect before one shoots him and then they all blast away making sure of things and then all stand around still pointing their weapons at a body full of holes expecting it to somehow re-vitalize and come at them. It's that slow methodical shuffle they all seem to do. Human nature I'm afraid.

 

[Really?]

Oh, ok.

:goodpost: :sweep:

 

[Noisy Fan]

excerpted quote:
The closer he gets to the bathroom, the sillier "get of my house" seems to me.

It would be nonsense to do it after the first corner.

 

[Really?]

Reeva also knows how to fire a gun. There were at least 3 (I believe it was actually four) phones in that room with a panic button. But OP decides to go storming towards the "intruder" while yelling at the "intruder" instead of getting himself and Reeva to safety while also getting them help.

It just makes no sense.

MOO

lets get back to what we all know.....the intruder story is a farce,,,....

negate it.....OP was abusing Reeva.....verbally...then...IMO...physically.

She ran to the toilet for safety.....never dreaming OP has had an itchy murderous trigger finger for some time.....first test....fail....:jail:

 

[Interested Bystander]

But he didn't think he could get out safely. That's the whole point

Why could he/they not get out safely? His trial statement no longer says his bedroom door was locked and I am absolutely sure there was a reason for omitting this. Someone on here said that with the damage to the bedroom doors, they would spring open if pushed, even if locked.

 

[Rumpole]

Ugh. It was a hypothetical. It was asking you to assume that there actually was an armed intruder in the bathroom who was going to come out shooting. What would you do and would you be dead or alive at the end of it?

You are asking me questions that are totally unrelated to the hypothetical that I was responding to. Why?

I missed the start of this where the hypothetical was posed. I assume it is that there was an armed intruder in the toilet.
Personally I take a dim view of "home invaders"... I would "err" on the side of shooting them BEFORE they had a chance to do me harm. Perhaps overpower me and use my own weapon against me and any others in the house. If somebody invades your home then I do not feel any burden to ascertain the limits of their intent.... assume the worse.... that they are armed and will kill you. I certainly would NOT give them the benefit of any doubt.. wait and see if they do have a gun, let them shoot first before retaliating. etc ( All this is MORE SO... given that it is SA, where home invasion, rape, torture and murder are well known, if not common occurrences)

So... if I genuinely believed (knew for the purpose of the hypothetical) that there was an armed intruder in the toilet I would shoot. I think I might empty the magazine. OP showed restraint in only firing 4 shots.

To clarify:
BEYOND this hypothetical where a person KNEW there was an armed intruder in the toilet. This case involves ascertaining IF OP did genuinely believe that.. and was he in someway reckless in drawing that conclusion ( if he did). The State's case presented has been that OP is lying and that he did not believe that at all. That he shot at the door KNOWING Reeva was behind it. IMO they have failed to prove that. And so far they have barely addressed the issue of was OP reasonable in thinking there was an intruder. Again IMO the State can not address that issue so long as they do not concede that OP thought there was an intruder at all. I think Nel is gambling on being able to prove that OP knew Reeva was in the toilet. I can not see him doing that.
.

 

[Bazinga]

They did not respond to his challenge and they were fiddling with the door they were hiding behind, possibly armed and ready to come at him.

I'll ask you something. For whose benefit would Oscar shout out giving away his position in the hall?

For no one's benefit! In your scenario which I imagine is your expanded version of OP's defence scenario his shouting out would not benefit him or Reeva. He has given away his location and for all he knew when he was in the hall "the intruder(s)" were in the bathroom, not the toilet, as he heard the noise from the bathroom. Going straight to the bathroom is reckless rather than taking safe cover (himself and Reeva) with a view ready to shoot the first threatening intruder that leaves the bathroom. In your scenario with noise of an intruder coming in from the bathroom window (that the intruder just slid open) Oscar walks straight to the bathroom and gets shot. Bang, he's dead, Reeva not at all protected.

 

[seattlechiquita]

They did not respond to his challenge and they were fiddling with the door they were hiding behind, possibly armed and ready to come at him.



I'll ask you something. For whose benefit would Oscar shout out giving away his position in the hall?

He SAYS he shouted. His entire account is suspect, and this "I told them to get out of my house" is equally suspect.

 

[Really?]

Nobody's disputing that OP didn't successfully shoot through the door Viper. OP obviously did. What's being suggested is that he had no way of knowing where Reeva was, therefore could not intentionally target parts of Reeva's body.

I still say shot "A" was suppose to be the head shot , him thinking Reeva would be seated...(not to go potty per se...but to continue the argument heard by a witness(non biased)........she screamed afterwards and he aimed higher...but at this time she had already slumped down....causing "B" to miss entirely.

shot "C"......arm........
shot "D"....head shot.....finally.

:moo:

 

[Noisy Fan]

I missed the start of this where the hypothetical was posed. I assume it is that there was an armed intruder in the toilet.
Personally I take a dim view of "home invaders"... I would "err" on the side of shooting them BEFORE they had a chance to do me harm. Perhaps overpower me and use my own weapon against me and any others in the house. If somebody invades your home then I do not feel any burden to ascertain the limits of their intent.... assume the worse.... that they are armed and will kill you. I certainly would NOT give them the benefit of any doubt.. wait and see if they do have a gun, let them shoot first before retaliating. etc

So... if I genuinely believed (knew for the purpose of the hypothetical) that there was an armed intruder in the toilet I would shoot. I think I might empty the magazine. OP showed restraint in only firing 4 shots.
.

Congratulations, you are still alive.

 

[Noisy Fan]

He SAYS he shouted. His entire account is suspect, and this "I told them to get out of my house" is equally suspect.

You wouldn't judge a person before they have a chance to defend themselves in a court of law would you?

 

[Really?]

I'm back a few pages playing catch up....but I must say it is fantastic that we all have our own unique names.....so one can read though (skim over) posts faster.....:floorlaugh:

 

[Really?]

Just this makes me think even more about the whole thing NOT happening as OP says it did. WHO locks themselves in the WC in their own/their partner's house? I mean, seriously. No one does that. You lock yourself inside somewhere when you are trying to keep someone AWAY FROM YOU.

I thanked this post even though I personally always lock the toilet door at home.

I knock first....DH doesn't....IYKWIM.

I thanked it because OP is a liar......woot.

 

[Really?]

He didn't need to know where her head was. If you're shooting at somebody in such a small confined space, who's already down, and you keep shooting, one or more of those shots will be fatal. We've been told that any of the shots that hit her would have been fatal without rapid medical aid, because of the nature of the bullets. He just shot until she stopped screaming.

this is exactly how it happened. moo

 

[minor4th]

excerpted quote:
The closer he gets to the bathroom, the sillier "get of my house" seems to me.

Well, I'm not saying I totally believe that part of his story but I think it makes more sense to yell something as he's closer rather than farther

 

[Bazinga]

They did not respond to his challenge and they were fiddling with the door they were hiding behind, possibly armed and ready to come at him.

I'll ask you something. For whose benefit would Oscar shout out giving away his position in the hall?

Also,
It sounds to me like you think oscar definitely shouted and gave away his position in the hall putting himself at risk to warn Reeva. That you think this is a fact?
Of course, stepping out of this hypothetical story where Oscar truly believes there is an intruder in his bathroom his explanations and descriptions of shouting might be to explain any shouting heard by neighbours. When he wrote his BH statement he knew that neighbours heard things. He knew because the noises from his house made Dr Stipp come quickly to his house.

 

[jilly]

I still say shot "A" was suppose to be the head shot , him thinking Reeva would be seated...(not to go potty per se...but to continue the argument heard by a witness(non biased)........she screamed afterwards and he aimed higher...but at this time she had already slumped down....causing "B" to miss entirely.

shot "C"......arm........
shot "D"....head shot.....finally.

:moo:

I dunno. First of all, it's hard for me to believe that he was thinking clearly at all to have a plan of shooting her in the head first. I believe he was in such a uncontrollable rage and could not face losing her. After the first shot, he hesitated and might have had a very brief reality check but then when she started screaming he knew there was no hope and no turning back. He then made the decision to finish her off and stopped shooting when the screaming stopped.

 

[minor4th]

Why could he/they not get out safely? His trial statement no longer says his bedroom door was locked and I am absolutely sure there was a reason for omitting this. Someone on here said that with the damage to the bedroom doors, they would spring open if pushed, even if locked.

Because that's the scenario that was presented in the hypothetical