Trial Discussion Thread #17

[minor4th]

BBM - how long is 'temporarily'? He didn't mention in his affidavit any deafness or ear ringing after he killed Reeva. He did make a point though of saying it was 'pitch black' (which was his excuse for not seeing Reeva wasn't in bed) so I'd assume he'd definitely mention if he'd gone deaf as well as temporarily blind. And I don't think he or his DT have claimed deafness as part of his defence yet. Also, in the short space of time it took for him to run to the balcony and shout 'help help help' - he doesn't say he didn't hear any words come out, so his deafness must have occurred during the shooting, and for a short time afterwards, and then (coincidentally) come back within seconds as he ran to the balcony. Nope. Pretty sure if he'd gone temporarily deaf, he'd have said so. After all, it's a great excuse for not hearing Reeva screaming.

I dunno - I'm just going by common understanding of what a loud 9 mm gunshot would do to one's unprotected hearing in a small, confined space.

 

[Cherwell]

If Reeva was in the bed on the side that is next to the balcony, I cannot for the life of me see how she could have got out without being in his way. Unless she rolled over to the other side and got out from there?

I still can't accept that he wouldn't say to her "did you hear that?" or something. It's just not natural, not now he's made it clear that he'd been speaking to her moments before.

 

[MeeBee]

The state hasn't really come out and said it but I think they had Samantha testify that OP usually sleeps on the right side. So their argument is apparently that Reeva was sleeping on the left side and Oscar had to retrieve the gun from under the bed where Reeva was sleeping - therefore he must have known she wasn't in bed.

Defense case is that on that night OP was sleeping on the left because of his sore shoulder, which would make sense - his left shoulder was injured so he would sleep on the left side of the bed so that he could be facing Reeva without sleeping on his sore shoulder.

ETA: Actually that doesnt make sense if it was his left shoulder that was hurt. Now I've confused myself LOL. I'll have to go back and check which shoulder was sore.

I thought it was his right shoulder! :scared:

 

[minor4th]

The defense can not prove that OP thought the "intruder" was armed. OP has not said that he heard the sound of a safety being clicked off on a gun, heard the hammer being pulled back on a gun, saw a gun, heard the "intruder" say something to the effect of I will kill you, nothing of the sort. There was a closed door between OP and the "intruder".

OP did not know at the time that he went into the bathroom that the "intruder" was in the toilet room. For all he knew the "intruder" could have been coming around the corner of the bathroom from the opposite direction than OP. By going down a dark corridor to the bathroom, OP negates the possibility that an "intruder" was at the ready to kill him on sight.

MOO

The defense doesn't have to prove OP thought the intruder was armed. He says that is what he believed and it has to be reasonably possibly true for it to be accepted.

 

[minor4th]

I thought it was his right shoulder! :scared:

That would make sense then.

So if it's his right shoulder - he normally sleeps on the right hand side. But on that night he slept on the left hand side because his right shoulder was sore, allowing him to sleep facing Reeva without aggravating his shoulder.

He retrieved the gun from under the left side of the bed where he was sleeping that night - believing Reeva was still in bed on the right hand side (near the balcony).

 

[TorisMom003]

The defense doesn't have to prove OP thought the intruder was armed. He says that is what he believed and it has to be reasonably possibly true for it to be accepted.

And his actions show that he did not reasonably believe that there was an armed intruder in his bathroom. His actions before, during and after shooting Reeva do not show this at all.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

If Reeva was in the bed on the side that is next to the balcony, I cannot for the life of me see how she could have got out without being in his way. Unless she rolled over to the other side and got out from there?

I still can't accept that he wouldn't say to her "did you hear that?" or something. It's just not natural, not now he's made it clear that he'd been speaking to her moments before.

I think that is a really good point.

 

[minor4th]

And his actions show that he did not reasonably believe that there was an armed intruder in his bathroom. His actions before, during and after shooting Reeva do not show this at all.

MOO

I disagree.

 

[Gryffindor]

Just had a wee thought

Before retiring to bed, was the toilet cubicle door already closed tight or ajar?? Hmm . . .

 

[DebinGA]

I dunno - I'm just going by common understanding of what a loud 9 mm gunshot would do to one's unprotected hearing in a small, confined space.

Like in a car? OP's reaction was to laugh, not scream like a girl, "I'm DEAF!!"

 

[MeeBee]

That would make sense then.

So if it's his right shoulder - he normally sleeps on the right hand side. But on that night he slept on the left hand side because his right shoulder was sore, allowing him to sleep facing Reeva without aggravating his shoulder.

He retrieved the gun from under the left side of the bed where he was sleeping that night - believing Reeva was still in bed on the right hand side (near the balcony).

That's what the defense is saying...I think.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

The state hasn't really come out and said it but I think they had Samantha testify that OP usually sleeps on the right side. So their argument is apparently that Reeva was sleeping on the left side and Oscar had to retrieve the gun from under the bed where Reeva was sleeping - therefore he must have known she wasn't in bed.

Defense case is that on that night OP was sleeping on the left because of his sore shoulder, which would make sense - his left shoulder was injured so he would sleep on the left side of the bed so that he could be facing Reeva without sleeping on his sore shoulder.

ETA: Actually that doesnt make sense if it was his left shoulder that was hurt. Now I've confused myself LOL. I'll have to go back and check which shoulder was sore.

Yes he is normally on the right and they found a magazine and holder in the draw at that side .but the holster was definitely at the left bedside cabinet.

 

[MeeBee]

Like in a car? OP's reaction was to laugh, not scream like a girl, "I'm DEAF!!"

That's different, he shot out of an open window. This was an enclosed bathroom with acoustics.

 

[Gryffindor]

And his actions show that he did not reasonably believe that there was an armed intruder in his bathroom. His actions before, during and after shooting Reeva do not show this at all.

MOO

Never mind armed burglar, burglar or otherwise . . . It could've been a leaf that had blown in???

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Like in a car? OP's reaction was to laugh, not scream like a girl, "I'm DEAF!!"

That is a really good point .

 

[soozieqtips]

If Reeva was in the bed on the side that is next to the balcony, I cannot for the life of me see how she could have got out without being in his way. Unless she rolled over to the other side and got out from there?

I still can't accept that he wouldn't say to her "did you hear that?" or something. It's just not natural, not now he's made it clear that he'd been speaking to her moments before.

Agreed. It's just not natural when you look at the available space between the balcony and Reeva's side of the bed (if she really was on the balcony side that night). And if she'd been on the bathroom side, how did OP not accidentally brush against her while he was getting his gun from under the bathroom side of the bed? Either way, it doesn't seem remotely possible that he didn't see or feel her, whichever side of the bed she was on, or didn't think it was her making noises in the toilet when he knew he'd just spoken to her. I wonder what the judge will make of that.

 

[minor4th]

Like in a car? OP's reaction was to laugh, not scream like a girl, "I'm DEAF!!"

According to Samantha he and Darren laughed and no one screamed like a woman "I'm deaf" - but Darren did testify that there was a very loud ringing in his ears. So, yeah, kind of like that.

 

[Cherwell]

The defense doesn't have to prove OP thought the intruder was armed. He says that is what he believed and it has to be reasonably possibly true for it to be accepted.

And his actions show that he did not reasonably believe that there was an armed intruder in his bathroom. His actions before, during and after shooting Reeva do not show this at all.

Exactly. He makes no attempt to ensure his girlfriend's safety. He goes out of his way to confront the alleged intruder, when there was a feasible exit available close at hand.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

That's different, he shot out of an open window. This was an enclosed bathroom with acoustics.

A car is still an enclosed space and the bathroom window was open according to OP

 

[Viper]

What changed your mind?

Oscar fired once from some position, within the bathroom but by the hall that leads out of the bathroom. I believe we all agree on that one point. But then he went in to the bathroom and fired three more bullets while moving and reacquiring his aim - to do that, reacquire his aim, he had to have located his target. And since he did that and all of the shots were fired at an acute angle leading to Reeva Steenkamp then the only way he could have had a target was to use her screaming and aim at that.

I hope you follow what I mean when I say he was moving, acquiring his aim on the target, and he was hitting the target. Here is a video of professional shooters doing that, you don't have to watch more than 10 seconds of it to understand what OP was doing when he fired those 4 bullets at Reeva. Go to .36 for slow motion:

http://youtu.be/fE2go2TjHK8