Trial Discussion Thread #17

[TorisMom003]

I got in a position kind of sheltered by a corner where tI could shoot him before he could shoot me if he got in the house. If he had been in my house in a closed room and I could hear him - I would have shot him through the door if I could not run away safely.

I didn't push a button - I called the cops and yelled and pumped my shotgun. And it was effective on that occasion. But remember, I was alone and not with someone else in the house at the time.

Big point here, you called the cops. What did OP do? He NEVER called the cops. Even after shooting 4 times into the door he still didn't call the cops. Even after "realizing" that Reeva was the one in the toilet room he told security that everything was fine. That doesn't strike anyone as odd behavior and completely out of the ordinary as to what any reasonable (innocent) person would do?

 

[MeeBee]

BIB1. Yes they do!!!

BIB2. Did you watch the video? It requires a fraction if a second to both reacquire his target (his aim) and move slightly to the right to get a better shot on the target.

BIB3. It is the only way OP could have hit Reeva with 3 of his 4 shots fired while he was moving and reacquiring his target (aim). And the logical reason he did it was to murder Reeva.

BIB4. OPs first shot was aimed center mass but it went low left and hit Reeva's hip. Center mass is the paper target bullseye at his shooting range, and it is the best target because it is easier to hit than a headshot would be; only snipers aim for the head. Once Reeva fell there was only one target left, her voice, so to silence her blood curdling screams he targeted her voice (her mouth) and he did get a successful headshot.

BIB5. See BIB4

He got a successful head shot by listening to her voice?

:waitasec:

:no:

 

[BritsKate]

How could Oscar have known there weren't multiple intruders though? How could he know they didn't have an assault weapon trained on him? And what would have happened to Reeva if Oscar had been killed by the intruder? Especially considering the bedroom door was locked.

It just doesn't equate that someone with a physical disadvantage would respond as he did. MOO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[minor4th]

Anyway, I know many disagree and are convinced Oscar is lying and intentionally shot Reeva after some fight (as the state alleges) but I just don't see any evidence of that and nothing that is remotely convincing.

In fact, with each state witness, I became more and more convinced that Oscar's version could possibly be true - outlandish as it seems when you first read it.

There are still aspects of his story that I have a little trouble with, but I have to wait and see what he says and how credible he is when he testifies.

Even if he really really truly believed there was an armed burgler in the toilet who was going to shoot him and rape Reeva, there's still a case for culpable homicide to be made, and that may be what we end up with. Or he may get acquitted - I think it will depend on his testimony and the defense evidence.

 

[Gryffindor]

With the washer he heard rustling, vague sounds. Same, presumably, with the noises he reported to ST. Hearing a window opening and possibly whatever was going on in the bathroom, like a key locking, are only attributable to human manipulation. Those are pretty tell tale signs that your ears aren't just playing with you, they're real. Panic mode.

Just a thought. Regarding Oscar's panic/fear, consider:

Whilst he was aiming 1st shot at toilet door WHAT IF said "burglar" (if they'd opened the window) had indeed ducked down, whilst standing on ladders (Oscar's claim ladders were present against wall, allowing access) and started shooting at HIM whilst he was fixated on toilet door??

 

[TorisMom003]

He got a successful head shot by listening to her voice?

:waitasec:

:no:

IMO, yes. He knew where her head was based on where her voice was coming from. This explains why the shots move from left to right. Reeva moved from left to right. I guess he "got lucky" with those last two shots then, huh? One in the arm that was covering her head, that shot also left holes in her shirt in the chest area. Imagine if her arm had NOT been there to slow down that bullet.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

BBM - so you fired off a warning shot. But OP didn't bother with that. He immediately shot to kill.

I didn't fire a warning shot - I pumped the shotgun to load a shell in the chamber, which prepared it for firing. It's a very loud and distinctive sound that any intruder could not mistake for anything other than a shotgun.

Different situation than OP - if there was a burglar, he was not yet in my house, and I was not worried about being able to protect someone else in my house or thinking I might get shot if I try to run. Those things weren't even options at that time.

But the question was about whether you would yell and announce your location if you thought an armed intruder was nearby - and my response was that in a similar situation, that is exactly what I did, even though it may seem stupid in hindsight.

 

[minor4th]

How could Oscar have known there weren't multiple intruders though? How could he know they didn't have an assault weapon trained on him? And what would have happened to Reeva if Oscar had been killed by the intruder? Especially considering the bedroom door was locked.

It just doesn't equate that someone with a physical disadvantage would respond as he did. MOO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

He might have assumed there were multiple intruders with automatic weapons. His intent was to shoot them and kill them dead before they could come out guns blazing and kill him and rape Reeva.

If there had actually been a gang of bad guys with AK's and they killed Oscar but were not hurt or killed by his 4 shots into the cubicle - then it would have been very bad news for Reeva. I assume that is exactly what Oscar was trying to prevent

 

[MeeBee]

IMO, yes. He knew where her head was based on where her voice was coming from. This explains why the shots move from left to right. Reeva moved from left to right. I guess he "got lucky" with those last two shots then, huh? One in the arm that was covering her head, that shot also left holes in her shirt in the chest area. Imagine if her arm had NOT been there to slow down that bullet.

MOO

As I posted before, Mangena testified that it would be very difficult to avoid gunfire in that tiny little space if you were being fired at. He made it seem almost impossible and grim. It probably did not take a great deal of skill or for him to have the ability to "track" Reeva's voice to be able to hit her in there. Sometimes, you get a "lucky" (wouldn't be my word...") shot. Sometimes people just randomly fire and hit people in the head. I don't know what's so hard to believe about that. That he could get a head shot off by tracking her voice is the stuff of a wild imagination. Her voice would be filling the room. It's ridiculous. It is trying too hard.

 

[Gryffindor]

It's quite crucial then that he changed his statements. One says "heard a noise" and as he approached saw window open.

Other version, he "hears the window sliding open"

So which is it, Oscar??

 

[TorisMom003]

And something else - while Oscar is disabled (to what extent is arguable) - Reeva was obviously not. My husband relies very heavily on me to be his legs and often wakes me when he needs something - so even assuming Oscar was at his most vulnerable, why wouldn't he ensure the most mobile person sought help? Why wouldn't he unlock the bedroom door and send her running, screaming for help?

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Reeva also knows how to fire a gun. There were at least 3 (I believe it was actually four) phones in that room with a panic button. But OP decides to go storming towards the "intruder" while yelling at the "intruder" instead of getting himself and Reeva to safety while also getting them help.

It just makes no sense.

MOO

 

[james83]

He might have assumed there were multiple intruders with automatic weapons. His intent was to shoot them and kill them dead before they could come out guns blazing and kill him and rape Reeva.

If there had actually been a gang of bad guys with AK's and they killed Oscar but were not hurt or killed by his 4 shots into the cubicle - then it would have been very bad news for Reeva. I assume that is exactly what Oscar was trying to prevent

Trying to prevent that by not telling her to get out of the house when he first heard the noise?.

 

[TorisMom003]

He might have assumed there were multiple intruders with automatic weapons. His intent was to shoot them and kill them dead before they could come out guns blazing and kill him and rape Reeva.

If there had actually been a gang of bad guys with AK's and they killed Oscar but were not hurt or killed by his 4 shots into the cubicle - then it would have been very bad news for Reeva. I assume that is exactly what Oscar was trying to prevent

Where is the "rape Reeva" part coming from?

 

[MeeBee]

It's quite crucial then that he changed his statements. One says "heard a noise" and as he approached saw window open.

Other version, he "hears the window sliding open"

So which is it, Oscar??

Those are pretty similar statements...

 

[minor4th]

Big point here, you called the cops. What did OP do? He NEVER called the cops. Even after shooting 4 times into the door he still didn't call the cops. Even after "realizing" that Reeva was the one in the toilet room he told security that everything was fine. That doesn't strike anyone as odd behavior and completely out of the ordinary as to what any reasonable (innocent) person would do?

Yeah, but I was able to call the cops because the bad guys weren't actually in my house and it wasn't pitch black and I wasn't locked in one room; it was easy for me to move from one room to another and get in a position where I could defend myself if it came to that - and while I was waiting for the cops to get there I was still scared out of my mind that I was going to get shot, and I was still ready to shoot the bad guy if they got in my house or kept making noises after I pumped the shotgun.

It's hard to describe the extreme fear and panic you feel in a moment like that. In fact there is really no way to adequately describe it in words. Having been through that kind of fear, I also don't think it's fair to sit back in the light of day months later and in hindsight and make judgments about what should have been done or what a "reasonable" person would have done. That's an impossible judgment to make.

 

[Viper]

He got a successful head shot by listening to her voice?

:waitasec:

:no:

Yes.

BTW. OP is not the only killer to successfully shoot victims that they cannot see that are behind a door. A two minute Google review pulled up pages of similar shootings, I grabbed a few for the Forum!


http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24504890/woman-shot-through-door-her-home

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/19338567/woman-shot-through-door-of-northeast-atlanta-home

http://www.examiner.com/article/man-charged-with-murder-of-woman-shot-through-door-of-home

http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/...gh-door-of-oak-park-apartment-police-say.html

 

[Insp.Dots]

If Reeva was in the bed on the side that is next to the balcony, I cannot for the life of me see how she could have got out without being in his way. Unless she rolled over to the other side and got out from there?

I still can't accept that he wouldn't say to her "did you hear that?" or something. It's just not natural, not now he's made it clear that he'd been speaking to her moments before.

Agreed....him saying nothing at that point or checking is a big problem for the defence IMO..

Can anyone find a record of the final text Reeva sent Gina Myers. I am surprised they didn't call her as that was the last definite communication to someone as far as I can see. And the fact she didn't sign off with her usual "love you my G" seems telling.

Or maybe I'm looking too deep? Thoughts??

 

[TorisMom003]

I didn't fire a warning shot - I pumped the shotgun to load a shell in the chamber, which prepared it for firing. It's a very loud and distinctive sound that any intruder could not mistake for anything other than a shotgun.

Different situation than OP - if there was a burglar, he was not yet in my house, and I was not worried about being able to protect someone else in my house or thinking I might get shot if I try to run. Those things weren't even options at that time.

But the question was about whether you would yell and announce your location if you thought an armed intruder was nearby - and my response was that in a similar situation, that is exactly what I did, even though it may seem stupid in hindsight.

I would say that pumping the shotgun is a form of firing off a warning shot. You let the would be intruder know that you in fact had a gun at hand and was ready to shoot.

MOO

 

[james83]

Those are pretty similar statements...

No they are really not

2013 "i Heard a noise in the bathroom and realised someone was in the bathroom"

2014 " I heard the bathroom window sliding open"

2013 someone was already in the bathroom

2014 the bathroom window was just slid open

Which is it.

 

[minor4th]

Where is the "rape Reeva" part coming from?

Since there is such a high incidence of rape in SA in connection with burglaries and violent crime - I'm just taking a leap of logic and guessing that is one of the things that Oscar was afraid would happen if he didn't protect himself and Reeva.