Trial Discussion Thread #17

[soozieqtips]

I opened one and it must be the one who died then. It still proves my point. It flies in the face of needing a voice tracking skill to randomly shoot and kill someone behind a door.

Why does it need a skill to track a voice?

When a mother and young child are talking, their voices are very clearly coming from different levels. If Reeva's position changed after the first shot (which it did according to the expert) then why is it so hard to believe her screaming came from a different place than when she was shot in the hip? Who needs a 'voice-tracking skill' to hear that?

 

[Viper]

I opened one and it must be the one who died then. It still proves my point. It flies in the face of needing a voice tracking skill to randomly shoot and kill someone behind a door.

TBH I don't have a clue what your point is.

 

[steveml]

Yes.

BTW. OP is not the only killer to successfully shoot victims that they cannot see that are behind a door. A two minute Google review pulled up pages of similar shootings, I grabbed a few for the Forum!


http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24504890/woman-shot-through-door-her-home

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/19338567/woman-shot-through-door-of-northeast-atlanta-home

http://www.examiner.com/article/man-charged-with-murder-of-woman-shot-through-door-of-home

http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/...gh-door-of-oak-park-apartment-police-say.html

Nobody's disputing that OP didn't successfully shoot through the door Viper. OP obviously did. What's being suggested is that he had no way of knowing where Reeva was, therefore could not intentionally target parts of Reeva's body.

 

[minor4th]

In your opinion, yes?

There is nothing that shows for a fact if OP did or did not follow Reeva's voice and fired accordingly. However, there are 4 bullet holes that show a left to right and downward angle that just happens to line up to where Reeva was at the time.

MOO

Do you think he intentionally shot Reeva in the head by stopping to listen to where her voice was and calculating where her head would be when she fell?

Yes, it's my opinion that there's no way he tracked Reeva's voice to shoot her in the head - but beyond that, it defies logic and reality to believe otherwise. In my opinion .....

 

[MeeBee]

Why does it need a skill to track a voice?

When a mother and young child are talking, their voices are very clearly coming from different levels. If Reeva's position changed after the first shot (which it did according to the expert) then why is it so hard to believe her screaming came from a different place than when she was shot in the hip? Who needs a 'voice-tracking skill' to hear that?

I could see realizing the voice is lower, if one is looking for that. I don't see how you could accurately pinpoint where the head is based on where the general area of the voice is coming from. I'm finding it hard to believe people actually think this.

And, again, why shoot at the hip if you are trying to kill someone? Why are the angles of all the bullets exactly the same? If he shot at the hip first and then the head one would expect different angles as he looks for the voice. They're all identical.

 

[minor4th]

Moving on ...

Or rather, getting back to the trajectory rods and ballistic guy's testimony and demonstrations, this once again lines up with Oscar's account and totally goes against the state's initial theory that OP was on his legs and shot straight through the door from close range.

I mean, that was their big theory to support premeditation ...

 

[steveml]

Then why does OP say he got the key from off the floor of the toilet room?

Because he has to break the door to get his hand to the other side and get the key out of the lock. He can then either unlock from the inside, or remove the key and unlock from the outside. Two keys can't usually go in a lock at the same time. Locks don't usually work that way.

If he hadn't done this, the only way he could have got Reeva out was to break down the complete door.

I like this one.

 

[TorisMom003]

Do you think he intentionally shot Reeva in the head by stopping to listen to where her voice was and calculating where her head would be when she fell?

Yes, it's my opinion that there's no way he tracked Reeva's voice to shoot her in the head - but beyond that, it defies logic and reality to believe otherwise. In my opinion .....

When she fell? No. After she fell? Yes.

I look at it this way. OP would have shot at center mass of the door if he really thought that an intruder was in that room. He didn't. OP shot towards the toilet, down lower where someone would be sitting on the toilet. OP then moved to the right and up, where someone would be standing after getting up from the toilet. Then OP moved right even more and downward, where someone would be after being struck with one or two bullets that had already been fired.

This shows me that OP was tracking where Reeva would be and fired accordingly.

MOO

 

[MeeBee]

TBH I don't have a clue what your point is.

I don't think that's true. Those stories (or the one, I guess) prove you can shoot blindly through a door and successfully hit your target. And I'd wager none of those people were in as small an area as Reeva was in. That OP hit Reeva in the head does not indicate he was aiming right for her and must have known exactly where it was. It means he fired into a door and one of the shots happened to hit Reeva in the head. Did any of those people "track the voice?" Then your anecdotes prove nothing.

 

[TorisMom003]

Because he has to break the door to get his hand to the other side and get the key out of the lock. He can then either unlock from the inside, or remove the key and unlock from the outside. Two keys can't usually go in a lock at the same time. Locks don't usually work that way.

If he hadn't done this, the only way he could have got Reeva out was to break down the complete door.

I like this one.

Please re read what I posted. OP claims that he retrieved the key from the FLOOR of the toilet room. OP does not claim that he retrieved the key from the lock on the toilet side of the door.

 

[Mystymiss]

If there had been an intruder in my house, I would for sure not fire a warning shot and then give them the chance to shoot me back. If they were in my house, I would either escape if I could do so with safety - or I would have shot to kill them or totally incapacitate them.

I under stand what you're saying but wouldn't you make sure you were shooting at a real intruder not your kids. your guest, parents or other family member? How would you know if they were behind a closed door?

Racking a shot gun makes a unique sound you can hear clearly. Pulling back the hammer on a pistol (which makes less of a noise) but both of these actions will allow you quick action if the intruder or who ever it is made any attempt to harm you. Then you shoot them dead (empting the firearm of all of its bullets) JMO

 

[Insp.Dots]

All I can say about this is based on having been in a situation where I thought there was a burglar trying to enter my home when it was late at night and my spouse was on call.

I loudly got the 12 gage shotgun and loudly pumped it to assure that the intruder knew that I was armed and ready to shoot. And even though I was alone, I called out as if there was someone with me "Call the cops - I don't want to kill this guy" or words to that effect.

Was it rational? Maybe not - but at the time, being scared beyond belief, in my mind, I was blustering and hoping to scare the intruder away. It might have worked too because when the cops got there, there was evidence that there had been someone outside a lower floor window tampering with it...but if there was someone there, they had fled before the police got there.

I cannot begin to imagine the fear you went through, glad you came out of it to tell the tale. My Sister in law was alone with her two young girls and heard an intruder coming through the patio doors. Thankfully they were disturbed (a neighbour had seen them and shouted) just as they got inside and they ran. She had problems sleeping for years after and still isn't properly over it. She says it's the what if's that do it...she said she was looking for something heavy to hit them with. I do know if someone did the same to me I would have done whatever to protect my kids...and wouldn't be worried about killing whoever. I do think instinct would takeover a lot and you wouldn't necessarily think in a rational or lawful manner.
Luckily we don't have guns here, I hope we never do. Knives are the problem here and they are bad enough!

 

[strydohj]

If there had been an intruder in my house, I would for sure not fire a warning shot and then give them the chance to shoot me back. If they were in my house, I would either escape if I could do so with safety - or I would have shot to kill them or totally incapacitate them.

How would one know after four shots, not getting any audible feedback, that it is ok stop firing and that the intruder has been incapacitated?

 

[steveml]

Why does it need a skill to track a voice?

When a mother and young child are talking, their voices are very clearly coming from different levels. If Reeva's position changed after the first shot (which it did according to the expert) then why is it so hard to believe her screaming came from a different place than when she was shot in the hip? Who needs a 'voice-tracking skill' to hear that?

Reeva's body was only in two positions during the shooting, it wasn't moving around to be tracked. It was standing up, then slumped on the magazine rack, with head on toilet. There is no in-between.

As I said before these shots blow part of your body away, there is no writhing around or falling down in slow motion. They have the power to knock you off your feet.

 

[steveml]

How would one know after four shots, not getting any audible feedback, that it is ok stop firing and that the intruder has been incapacitated?

I guess he felt that nobody was going to survive that, and unfortunately he was correct.

Do we know how many bullets were in the magazine?

That may have been all the bullets that were loaded.

I'd like to know more on that though.

 

[Viper]

OP makes it sound as if his bedroom door being locked is a major obstacle in his way of getting to safety. How long does it take to pick up the key, unlock the door and open the door? And before someone says that it was pitch dark in his room making it more difficult to find the door key, he had no problem finding his gun in the pitch dark. I would imagine that someone who locks their bedroom door at night will put the key in the same place each time making it easier to find if they need to get to it in a hurry.

MOO

He took that part about the "locked door" out of his updated version of the fairy tale! :smile:

 

[Gryffindor]

No they're not. One is vague and could apply to absolutely anything.
The other is specific and refers to a window sliding open.

Indeed. Totally different assertions. Latter one is embellished, attempting to compound/ convince of his fear of a burglar.

Initially he didn't even KNOW the window was open till he got to the bathroom

 

[minor4th]

How would one know after four shots, not getting any audible feedback, that it is ok stop firing and that the intruder has been incapacitated?

It's a safe assumption if I'm shooting into a 3x3 bathroom or whatever it's actual dimensions were.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Um, that kind of proves my point. Killing someone through a door isn't exactly a feat of skill. You fire, you hit. I don't know why it would have to involve the ability to "track a voice." (Gets more ridiculous every time I type it...)

From everything I've read after his first shot (especially in a tiled room) OP's ears would be ringing and he wouldn't hear clearly. Even RS would have had trouble hearing. Hence the reason they wear ear plugs at the range as do military when shooting. That part has been tested by experts and can again be found by google!

 

[minor4th]

I under stand what you're saying but wouldn't you make sure you were shooting at a real intruder not your kids. your guest, parents or other family member? How would you know if they were behind a closed door?

Racking a shot gun makes a unique sound you can hear clearly. Pulling back the hammer on a pistol (which makes less of a noise) but both of these actions will allow you quick action if the intruder or who ever it is made any attempt to harm you. Then you shoot them dead (empting the firearm of all of its bullets) JMO

Well, like I said - I was home alone at the time so that wasn't really an issue.

I really cannot say what I would have done if my kids had been home or someone else.