Trial Discussion Thread #20 - 14.04.08, Day 18

[Carol70]

not sure if it's relevant for me to say this but it's very much in the culture, maybe a common NZ, Aus and Sth Africa thing to always drink a hot drink and to always offer one, even when staying at your friend's house... friends are always surprised when I turn this down, it's a thing, especially tea or hot choc

Yep, same here...it's quite normal to have a tea or coffee before bed and it's considered rude to make coffee and not offer everyone else in the household. (Lol, that's why I always try make mine on the sly )

 

[Gryffindor]

I agree, thanks so much Lisa! X

Just saw the hip wound for the first time and I don't know why I'm so surprised that it's just a small hole (sorry to be graphic). Considering the nature of the injury, I had another very gruesome picture in my mind.

Thanks Carol :-D I take it you missed the head one then? And the hip hole was about 2cm. Big for a body wound eh?

 

[TorisMom003]

I do hope that it is remembered what kind of bullets was used to shoot and kill Reeva. Those bullets mushroom and cause massive damage once inside the body. The entrance wound is going to look much smaller than the large damage the bullet does inside.

 

[TorisMom003]

He did seem to flounder when trying to describe his V-Day gift to Reeva, as if he wasn't confident in what he was saying.

If he'd got her a charm bracelet, it could have still been at the jeweler's to have the charms put on.

Don't think he could use the "I was buying her a car" since that would be much more difficult to not only prove, but for the judge to believe.

MOO

 

[Lyra500]

Firstly, I apologise for turning up late to the party and probably trying to start a conversation which everyone else has already had, but i was at work from just after 7am to 6.30pm and am just too weary to read through the thread.

In a brief respite at work I was reading some of the transcript and saw something which really made me :maddening:

In his first affidavit OP made no mention whatsoever of speaking to Reeva after they both retired to bed until he shouted "get out of my house" at the 'intruders' and "Call the police" to Reeva.

In the second statement at the beginning of the trial he suddenly claimed that he had just spoken to Reeva before he fetched the fans in and then made no mention of speaking again until the shouting as above.

All of a sudden in his testimony today he apparently whispered "Reeva call the police " when he came in with the fans and heard the noise.

As soon as I read that, I thought "i bet his defence team read the web to see what holes people are picking in his account and then try to amend his testimony to fix them"

Why didn't he mention this whisper before? Because it never happened in my view. Just another lie and obfuscation to try and cover his back.

I had already wondered whether the sleuths on here and elsewhere on the web might be helping his defence team by pointing out where his account is weak and therefore where they need to invent stuff to plug the gaps. I now think this may well be the case.

Just my own opinion.

 

[steveml]

not sure if it's relevant for me to say this but it's very much in the culture, maybe a common NZ, Aus and Sth Africa thing to always drink a hot drink and to always offer one, even when staying at your friend's house... friends are always surprised when I turn this down, it's a thing, especially tea or hot choc

Yep, it's remarkable that anyone can find such a pleasant act unusual, let alone suspicious.
I'll offer to make a brew at anyone's house, and often don't bother having one myself.

 

[james83]

2013 slumped over but alive
2014 not breathing
That original affidavit isnt looking to clever now.

 

[kittychi]

Why are they so willing to adjourn? Thats both days cut short already. This is a trial and he has to pull himself together or there should be repercussions. He is a grown man, not a child. He gets no sympathy from me. It is pathetic. He has had over a year to deal with this and prepare for it. Yes, it is and should be distressing but he should have a responsibility to the court to get through it like a man.
If I was the judge I would tell him that no further adjournments will be allowed and if he continues to attention seek (especially when the victim's family have to constantly keep their powerful emotions of anger and sadness in check.) it will be seen as contempt of court.
To me, it is typical behaviour of an entitled, selfish and immature individual who blames others and courts attention and sympathy.

I don't buy it and I'm angry with the judge AND Nel for allowing it and not insisting on a brief break and speedy resumption to proceedings.
He's able to walk out of court now so he should be able to sit in a chair and talk.
Also fed up of the media constantly talking about OP's feelings and behaviour.
Get over it now or close the case and go direct to sentencing.
It is contempt of court time IMHO.

:goodpost: :clap:

 

[atthelake]

I have to admit he's clever to manage acting out all that wailing, sobbing and being sick. If it is an act.

Thinking about it I've never heard an adult crying and sobbing so loudly. That's not to say adults never do. I have heard children do it, usually when they want to be heard either in protest or to be comforted.

Perhaps that is because most adults do it in private. Coming unexpectedly across my fiancé dead of a heart attack, I let out blood curdling screams, I cursed at God and I screamed words that I am ashamed at to this day - and I believe all the neighbors heard as it was spring and the windows were open. FOR DAYS AND NIGHTS afterwards they heard me in my neighborhood doing the same thing. I've never screamed so loud and long and talking/screaming before or since..... for days and nights. NOTE: If you have a friend who has a death of a close one, do NOT let them be alone

But you are VERY on target for one thing, I was protesting his death, and wanted to be comforted - but it was beyond reach. .......ok, enough of that and back to Reva.

Yeah, within his testimony he's reaching out to ONE PERSON to identify with him perhaps (therefore the strange reference to the Israeli dance/judiasm?...gotta get religion in there)

 

[Carol70]

Thanks Carol :-D I take it you missed the head one then? And the hip hole was about 2cm. Big for a body wound eh?

I did see it but it's not very clear so didn't look too hard. I guess I just imagined that since the hip was described as rendering her immobile and unable to stand, shattered etc, I guess I expected a huge open crushed mess. But like Torismom and Lisa mentioned, those types of bullets cause most damage internally. Was just a bit shocking to me to see the wound, and not because I'm squeamish, maybe because just wasn't what I expected.

 

[Lyra500]

This could serve to 'justify' all that time that passed until his first phonecall...

Yes indeed. Just another embellishment to try to excuse the inexcusable.

 

[Insp.Dots]

If OP's version is right, then it seems you may have been right in that she may have had a vendetta of sorts against him in her testimony. She still seems hung up on him and may have harassed Reeva after thy began dating. I don't know why anyone should take her testimony very seriously in light of this information.

<modsnip> The sad thing is how easily 'outsiders' can have an affect on a new relationship, especially if the couple are already insecure or have been hurt before. I don't expect OP is the only one involved in this with regrets. It is so sad and tragic. IMO....

I think when Mel gets to cross examination OP is just going to completely breakdown. I can see this ending in a psychiatric unit.:scared:

 

[minor4th]

So not many hearts or minds have been changed by Oscar's testimony. I suspect that those who already found him guilty would be smearing him no matter how he came across on the stand.

If he was robotic and unemotional he would be said to be uncaring and uninterested. He shows a great deal of emotion and it's labeled a self serving act. There's no way for him to be seen as anything other than GUILTY by those who have pre-judged him so - irrespective of the facts and evidence. IMO

I thought his testimony gave more insight into his thinking that night and the sorrow he feels about his actions. One thing that came across clearly in his testimony is that it was fear that motivated him to shoot and not bravado.

All his crying and emotion will not alter the facts or move him from guilty to not guilty - I can't imagine it will have any impact on the verdict other than it gives the judge something by which to judge his credibility. If she believes he is genuine, she will unlikely convict him of premeditated murder .. He is not behaving like a man who intended to kill his girlfriend. But I think the state failed to present a convincing case for premeditated murder anyway.

His remorse and strong emotion will certainly play a role in sentencing if he is found guilty of culpable homicide.

 

[whiterum]

Forget about Ryan Gosling! OP would certainly be able to present himself as an actor.

A one at that lol, howling like a donkey so everyone better sit up and pay attention to MY pain, when gentle weeping would have been more effective. Not surprising since IMO he's the type to whom it would be impossible even to replicate normal emotion, this guy is as cold as they come.

 

[katydid23]

for those who missed his wailing tantrum:

https://www.youtube.com/user/sabcdigitalnews
__________________

 

[Interested Bystander]

The whole story about buying a bracelet for Reeva seemed very made up to me. He fumbled throughout his explanation of the gift and said he had bought it earlier in the year. It was February. That's pretty early in the year. Why not just say a few weeks ago?

Also, why was it still at the jeweler? I'm pretty sure he didn't need to do lay-away. It was a nonsensical story. Another one.

I know that all these tidbits don't equal murderer however... his credibility and character are extremely important. The more he explains away and comes up with silly BS stories and excuses, the worse he looks.

All his explaining and justifying is over the top. I think his defense would be better off allowing him to admit to a few bad deeds form time to time. That's a lot more human and believable than his constant justifications.

I have listened to today's proceedings and second time around I feel even stronger that most of today's testimony is bogus. There is too much unnecessary embroidered detail. The sort of behaviour that a child indulges in when they are trying to hide a misdeed. I am not too sure why Roux didn't move him on. He could have got through today in a quarter of the time he took, even less IMO.

With respect to Roux allowing him to admit a few bad deeds, I suspect Roux would have preferred him to own up to the gun and ammunition charges and show he is not perfect. I cannot believe Roux does not see how bad OP's behaviour is going down.

Nel is going to shred him.

 

[minor4th]

I feel bad for him. He is clearly suffering.

That doesn't diminish the sorrow I feel for Reeva ...these are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Carol70]

2013 slumped over but alive
2014 not breathing
That original affidavit isnt looking to clever now.

Does it mean that if she was not breathing that she was in fact dead? Or can one be not breathing but still with a heart beat?

 

[katydid23]

So not many hearts or minds have been changed by Oscar's testimony. I suspect that those who already found him guilty would be smearing him no matter how he came across on the stand.

If he was robotic and unemotional he would be said to be uncaring and uninterested. He shows a great deal of emotion and it's labeled a self serving act. There's no way for him to be seen as anything other than GUILTY by those who have pre-judged him so - irrespective of the facts and evidence. IMO

I thought his testimony gave more insight into his thinking that night and the sorrow he feels about his actions. One thing that came across clearly in his testimony is that it was fear that motivated him to shoot and not bravado.

All his crying and emotion will not alter the facts or move him from guilty to not guilty - I can't imagine it will have any impact on the verdict other than it gives the judge something by which to judge his credibility. If she believes he is genuine, she will unlikely convict him of premeditated murder .. He is not behaving like a man who intended to kill his girlfriend. But I think the state failed to present a convincing case for premeditated murder anyway.

His remorse and strong emotion will certainly play a role in sentencing if he is found guilty of culpable homicide.

He did show a great deal of emotion. But his initial emotional testimony was all about HIMSELF. HE had nightmares, kept smelling blood, couldn't sleep, etc etc. Poor Oscar. :violin:

I think that was what put me off so much. His initial apology could have been more Reeva oriented. It could have been one in which he took the blame and held himself accountable. But he appears to be throwing everyone else, including Reeva herself, under the bus. If she had only closed the doors like he asked her to do before she fell asleep, he wouldn't have had to shoot her?

 

[soozieqtips]

A one at that lol, howling like a donkey so everyone better sit up and pay attention to MY pain, when gentle weeping would have been more effective. Not surprising since IMO he's the type to whom it would be impossible even to replicate normal emotion, this guy is as cold as they come.

He was so over the top it was hard to watch. And I'd like him to explain how come she was 'slumped over' but still alive in his first account... but 'not breathing' in his second account. Sat with her for 'I don't know how long' but didn't bother to get her medical help even though (in his first account) she was still alive? I tell you, you couldn't make this stuff up. Just wait till Nel gets hold of him and watch the howling commence.