Trial Discussion Thread #20 - 14.04.08, Day 18

[04009margaret]

That's good to hear .. (haven't seen the pix yet myself) .. so presumably, in that case, he should be ok to proceed. Good!

Hold on, he'll go for another adjournment tomorrow. He has to get through all the gore tomorrow, dragging her out of the toilet, carrying her bloody body down the stairs. Can you honestly see him getting through that.

 

[G.bng]

Whoa, I missed that. Another convenience for his story, like the broken bathroom light.

Just so many convenience's aren't there ?! His guard dogs turn out to be softees, he asks Reeva to bring in the fan and close the windows, his bedroom door needs a cricket bat to keep it closed, he has never screamed that way before so Sam Taylor would never heard him scream like a woman anyway, his neighbour who was to help him fix the broken window had been burgled with intruders using a ladder, and, and, and... just so many!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Now for the one I had been waiting for.

The message about Reeva trying to head towards the door while saying her goodbyes to people in her industry. The one where she says the line "I can't be attacked by outsiders for dating u AND be attacked by you the one person I deserve protection from". (By the way, the capitalized AND is what is in the actual message......I am not shouting at anyone and I sincerely doubt that Reeva was shouting it at OP) Reeva is upset that OP criticized her loudly so that others could hear.

OP's response in court is that he asked Reeva if they could walk straight for the exit and not stop because as soon as he stops he will have to take photos and he had training in the morning. He needed to get to bed. As soon as they left the table she stopped to talk to a friend of hers, being kind hearted like she was, she stopped to talk and didn't walk to the exit. They didn't leave until 40 or 50 minutes later. On the way to the car they started arguing, but not many people overheard them - just a friend of his and the friends girlfriend. In the car he told her it was important for him to leave early.

So does this not show that nothing is OP's fault? That he minimizes his own part in the late leaving? And it also minimizes her feelings/concerns that other people overheard him criticizing her. After all, it was only one of his friends and the friends girlfriend that overheard.

MOO

There are several photos with Reeva and Oscar on the (red?) carpet and a few of Reeva without him. Even that might have displeased celebrity Oscar.

On an especially photo Reeva is sitting at a table with not just a relaxed facial expression (would be approbiate to the cheerful evening) and OP is standing beside near her and is texting on his white phone (perhaps message to Reeva?). That fell on me and especially the date: one week before her killing, 7.2.2013.

 

[minor4th]

One thing that stood out from today's testimony was that Reeva was fully awake when OP was bringing in the fans, and they were actually speaking to each other.

 

[aa9511]

I'm thinking either OP or someone in his camp reads here at WS. We had the same thing happen during the Casey Anthony trial. Jose would bring something up in court that was talked about here at WS. They were also caught looking at WS on a laptop during court

bbm

Really??!

 

[Carol70]

I caught the ladder comment, covering all his options...These are his exact words "I was still scared to retreat because I wasn't sure if there was somebody on the ladder. I wasn't sure if there was somebody in the toilet" This was after pumping 4 shots into the toilet door.

Most home invasions have more than one perpertrator, I understood that to mean he heard someone in the bathroom and wasn't sure if there was also someone else still outside on the ladder...he does often refer to "intruders" (plural). IMO of course .

 

[patCee]

I'm thinking either OP or someone in his camp reads here at WS. We had the same thing happen during the Casey Anthony trial. Jose would bring something up in court that was talked about here at WS. They were also caught looking at WS on a laptop during court.

bbm

Really??!

Do you know that's something I wondered myself. Good call.

 

[Britlaws]

<modsnip>
The case I quoted has similarities to OP but they are in reality very different. Mdunge shot only once as the door was actually opening, there was no noise, screams or anything else that could have alerted him to the fact that it was his wife in the bathroom, he immediately rushed her to hospital. Her family supported his release as presumably they agreed that it was a terrible accident and that they didnt believe he intended to kill his wife, who was also pregnant with his baby. The scenario is very different to OPs.

Mdunges wife's family had a long relation ship with him, the Steenkamps never met OP.

 

[aa9511]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. There's no way to know exactly what is going through his mind but to me the crying and wailing indicate genuine emotional pain. It's likely a combination of remorse, regret, fear, depression, and all the emotions that have been building for the last year.

To suggest that it is staged is ridiculous IMO. To question what he's really crying about is a more reasonable question - and none of us know the answer to that question.

IMO Oscar is still deeply depressed and emotionally unstable (seems obvious, right?). I do not think he is in very good control over his emotions, certainly not enough to plan to cry at certain points. I think he wishes to avoid thinking about it and dealing with it at all and it is all very overwhelming.

Hmmm....but in that case he would certainly be a bumbling mess in other parts of his testimony as well, don't you think? If he was really an emotional basket-case?

Isn't this precisely the image he wants to portray which I stated in my post?

I don't think it's genuine what he's showing in court. I think he has thought about a certain image he wants to portray to the judge. He wants to portray that he is weak, that he is scared, that he has become so emotionally-distraught by all of this that he cannot possibly think of anything else and cannot possibly formulate any story or lines or lies. That he is just barely stringing himself along.

You would think such a basket-case emotional wreck would not be able to tell the other parts of the story so well, ike what order and precisely how he brought the fans in, what drink she gave him, what they did that night, setting the security, putting bat by the door, etc., etc.. Oh I forgot, what state the curtains were in. LED light. And the list goes on.

Wouldn't an emotional basket-case kind of be jumbled up on everything? You know, too emotionally distraught to really think clearly about any of it?

No, he seems to think clearly about every other part of it. Only when he knows he will have to discuss something which makes him look not-good and which he has no way of getting out of - such as her dead body. Which any way he puts it, defense or otherwise, he has killed her. Done with his own hands. Can't put that blame on anyone else. Unforunately (for him), no other person there that night to say that other person shot her.

 

[Waddles]

I hear ya And je d'accord aussi x

je suis d'accord , not a verb like in English :seeya: ("I am of agreement" type thing)

ETA: I write this as my French students always say "I am agree"

 

[steveml]

I'm thinking either OP or someone in his camp reads here at WS. We had the same thing happen during the Casey Anthony trial. Jose would bring something up in court that was talked about here at WS. They were also caught looking at WS on a laptop during court.

:hiding:

 

[Interested Bystander]

After today, there still isn't a distinct motive forwarded by the State, for pre-meditation. Nothing concrete.

My only sticking point for Oscar's version was the witnesses hearing female screams. However, after today's testimony, Oscar claims the ringing in his ears, due to acoustics/ballistics rendered him unable to hear anything. I don't know how evidence can be produced to counter his claim.

Ergo, whether 50 witnesses heard female screams or not, this point is now void, as Oscar DIDN'T hear screams or any other sound whilst firing.

Nel still has to cross-examine.

I posted upthread he would do this. He is so predictable. From what some of the witnesses have said there was screaming before the shots too, unless I am hallucinating. He would definitely have heard those.

He has always been in the position where someone has solved all his problems for him. This time he is on his own and he is finding it very hard or is a good actor.

 

[AlexUK]

Hold on, he'll go for another adjournment tomorrow. He has to get through all the gore tomorrow, dragging her out of the toilet, carrying her bloody body down the stairs. Can you honestly see him getting through that.

Praps Milady should allow him to give evidence from a cupboard, (maybe with his psychologist lady stroking his face), he seems to favour cupboards when stressed!

Wonder what time the adjournment will be tomorrow....I'm going for 14.17

:dunno:

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm thinking either OP or someone in his camp reads here at WS. We had the same thing happen during the Casey Anthony trial. Jose would bring something up in court that was talked about here at WS. They were also caught looking at WS on a laptop during court.

bbm

Really??!

Yes. At one point during the trial one of the laptops that had something to do with the defense showed a screen of a page with the WS logo at the top of the page. If I am not mistaken, WS was also mentioned by name from some of the defense.

 

[minor4th]

Hmmm....but in that case he would certainly be a bumbling mess in other parts of his testimony as well, don't you think? If he was really an emotional basket-case?

Isn't this precisely the image he wants to portray which I stated in my post?

I don't think it's genuine what he's showing in court. I think he has thought about a certain image he wants to portray to the judge. He wants to portray that he is weak, that he is scared, that he has become so emotionally-distraught by all of this that he cannot possibly think of anything else and cannot possibly formulate any story or lines or lies. That he is just barely stringing himself along.

You would think such a basket-case emotional wreck would not be able to tell the other parts of the story so well, ike what order and precisely how he brought the fans in, what drink she gave him, what they did that night, setting the security, putting bat by the door, etc., etc.. Oh I forgot, what state the curtains were in. LED light. And the list goes on.

Wouldn't an emotional basket-case kind of be jumbled up on everything? You know, too emotionally distraught to really think clearly about any of it?

No, he seems to think clearly about every other part of it. Only when he knows he will have to discuss something which makes him look not-good and which he has no way of getting out of - such as her dead body. Which any way he puts it, defense or otherwise, he has killed her. Done with his own hands. Can't put that blame on anyone else. Unforunately (for him), no other person there that night to say that other person shot her.

It does not seem at all odd to me that the point he really breaks down is when he is describing finding Reeva on the floor, having just been shot and killed by his own hand.

 

[JuneBug67]

Hahaha, when I listen to Roux and Nel, I also thought their voices are soo annoying and then realized that to foreigners, I probably sound exactly the same! :blushing:

This will have relevance to possibly exactly no one, but there was a children's TV show produced in Canada in the early 70s called 'The Hilarious House of Frightenstein'. It was a great show and lots of people of my era remember it really fondly. There was a character on there called Igor and the prosecution's ballistic guy sounded so much like Igor that it got me thinking about him and prompted a Wikipedia look up. Turns out he was a South African singer of some note before he ended up in Canada. I never would have made the association with South Africa had the ballistics guy not sounded so much like him. Lol.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I'm thinking either OP or someone in his camp reads here at WS. We had the same thing happen during the Casey Anthony trial. Jose would bring something up in court that was talked about here at WS. They were also caught looking at WS on a laptop during court.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit. Hundreds of brains fathoming every possible ruse for him to get himself off.

 

[JuneBug67]

It does not seem at all odd to me that the point he really breaks down is when he is describing finding Reeva on the floor, having just been shot and killed by his own hand.

No. It would not surprise me if he had PTSD. The circumstances are rife for it, and it would explain the high degree of emotionality if he wasn't recalling it but reliving it.

 

[G.bng]

Ah Yes Dewani ..... That is the other crime that I find incredible to deal with and will be watching that one for sure .
I can't believe the UK allowed him to have a camper van inside the grounds of the hospital and also allowed him out during the day to visit family .

Ah yes... him being allowed the camper van! And that's when it costs an arm and a leg to park at our nearest hospital as a patient and that's if you can find a parking space and don't have to park a mile down the road paying the local council instead!

 

[Carol70]

I'm thinking either OP or someone in his camp reads here at WS. We had the same thing happen during the Casey Anthony trial. Jose would bring something up in court that was talked about here at WS. They were also caught looking at WS on a laptop during court.

bbm

Really??!

I also found that interesting!! Just pictured roux with his cup of tea every night going through the days proceeding on WS hehe