Trial Discussion Thread #20 - 14.04.08, Day 18

[Carol70]

If the defense team, OP, anyone in his camp are reading the comments sections of the many articles about OP and this trial then surely they have seen WS come up. I myself have seen WS mentioned in at least one article while reading the comments section.

Then I'm sure the same could be said for Nel and his camp.

 

[TorisMom003]

Wow the thought of helping the defence is almost enough to put me off posting here

IMO It wont help the defense at all. OP has already told another version of the night in question than the first two. Once Nel gets a hold of him I predict that we will hear version number 4. If the defense has a load of rubbish to begin with then nothing that we say here is going to help them.

MOO

 

[aa9511]

BBM - Yes, and she was also fully awake when OP went to sleep. Funny that, because in his affidavit he said they both went to sleep at 10pm - but now, Reeva didn't go to sleep. Oh, and before Reeva didn't go to sleep, OP asked her to close up the room etc before she did fall asleep. But when he woke up and she was still awake, he still went to bring everything in, even though Reeva wasn't asleep and was going to do all that before she went to sleep.

During that, I kept thinking what if that was what set Oscar off? He seemed to have been very uncomfortable and hot when he supposedly woke up. In general, he seemed to be in a cranky-type of mood from the very beginning....I don't know if cranky is the right word, but he mentioned several times how tired he was....long day....just wanted to rest....etc..

So he's already got that state of mind, then he wakes up hot and sweaty. Then he realizes that Reeva did not do what she was supposed to do - bad girl. Bad girl's actions, or inaction, made him wake up miserable and cut into his precious rest-time. You know, serious athletes need their rest and all that.

Maybe this is what set off the argument. They argue about this, leading to arguments about other things (we all know how these things can go sometimes) - this is the hour of arguing that the witness heard. Things escalate and we get to where it unfortunately ended up.

JMO.

 

[TorisMom003]

Then I'm sure the same could be said for Nel and his camp.

Yes it can. And I for one would be shocked if the State did NOT look here at WS. The difference is, IMO, it won't help the defense at all.

 

[soozieqtips]

andrew hardingVerified account

‏@BBCAndrewH

Andrew Harding also said that OP should take care not to come across as the victim - as that victim was Reeva Steenkamp.

 

[04009margaret]

I agree but it is also IMO demonstrates her frustration at the whole situation. I think she may make a statement at the beginning of tomorrows proceedings.

I actually think OP's family are being very disrespectful to the Steenkamps, who have acted with absolute dignity throughout this ordeal. They are living this nightmare for the umpteenth time today, yet sit quietly, stifling their emotions. OP's family sitting there crying all the time, with their 'devastated' expressions - if the Steenkamps can keep it together, why can't they? or why can't they simply leave the courtroom?

It was a bit over the top when his psychologist joined in

 

[Carol70]

I also have no doubt he is sorry and if he could turn the clock back he would ,but I also think he is trying to give the judge the impression that he has suffered enough so as to be given no jail time what so ever . Cynical view point maybe but none the less MOO
I don't think you could possibly say he has suffered enough when he has moved on so quickly and has not been able to state for a fact that they were actually in love . They went on a few dates then Reeva went away ,he then went away to Cape Town and they then starting spending more time together mid January.
Reading the texts of fallouts with the time they spent together is telling .
A father shooting his daughter would quite clearly live with it for the rest of his life . OP would and has it would seem carried on as usual .

Do you truly, honestly believe that OP life is going to carry on as normal when all this is over, regardless of the outcome?? He is going to be ostracized for the rest of his days. I highly doubt he will ever compete again, nevermind find anyone willing to sponsor him. Life as he knew it is well and truly over.

 

[minor4th]

Andrew Harding also said that OP should take care not to come across as the victim - as that victim was Reeva Steenkamp.

And that is a good bit of advice and observation

 

[aa9511]

I don't think he seemed to be ok for most of this testimony. I think he was crying and sniffling throughout. He started sobbing at the rather climactic event of finding he had killed his girlfriend.

Again, that does not seem unusual to me at all. That is when I would expect the emotions to burst forth.

What I think is that his sob-story has managed to fool a lot of people who feel sorry for him.

Did you catch the part in his testimony when he tries to blame Derrin for the restaurant-shooting incident? He switches the whole story around and makes it appear like it's all Derrin's fault.

IMO, if there was someone else in that room with the two of them that night, he would not stop at anything in putting the blame of Reeva's murder on that person. He would say that they thought there was a burglar, the other person got the gun and shot through the door. I have no doubt in my mind about this. It's his story vs. the other person's - who's gonna know? It's just that in this case, unfortunately for him, there was only one other person in the room other than Reeva, who's dead. That leaves only him.

The restaurant-shooting testimony from today, unfortunately, is like a micro-cosm of his general personality.

JMO.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Do you truly, honestly believe that OP life is going to carry on as normal when all this is over, regardless of the outcome?? He is going to be ostracized for the rest of his days. I highly doubt he will ever compete again, nevermind find anyone willing to sponsor him. Life as he knew it is well and truly over.

I am referring to the relationship side of things .
I mean he will have a new love life and be going out again as normal very soon after the trial if he is acquitted .
I think at the outset of this he thought he could pick up the pieces of his career which I don't and never did feel would be the case

 

[soozieqtips]

During that, I kept thinking what if that was what set Oscar off? He seemed to have been very uncomfortable and hot when he supposedly woke up. In general, he seemed to be in a cranky-type of mood from the very beginning....I don't know if cranky is the right word, but he mentioned several times how tired he was....long day....just wanted to rest....etc..

So he's already got that state of mind, then he wakes up hot and sweaty. Then he realizes that Reeva did not do what she was supposed to do - bad girl. Bad girl's actions, or inaction, made him wake up miserable and cut into his precious rest-time. You know, serious athletes need their rest and all that.

Maybe this is what set off the argument. They argue about this, leading to arguments about other things (we all know how these things can go sometimes) - this is the hour of arguing that the witness heard. Things escalate and we get to where it unfortunately ended up.

JMO.

I don't think either of them had been asleep. He wouldn't (I don't think) have been annoyed at Reeva for not bringing everything in and closing up, because it was already agreed she'd do it before she went to sleep, and she hadn't gone to sleep. He did bring the time of his sleep forward to between 9 and 10pm rather than the 10pm stated in his affidavit. Which, after spending half an hour on the phone to his cousin, having a shower or bath, spending maybe another half hour watching and visiting car sites, leaves between 90 minutes and an hour and a half as the sum of their total evening together. Also, he said they didn't really get together till January, so this whole intense roller coaster took place over just a few weeks.

 

[aa9511]

Also, any depression he is feeling could be very much from not being able to train/compete the way he used to.

These high-level athletes live and breathe their training and their competition.

Now suddenly he has to put all of that on back-burner and possibly for the rest of his life (age-range for this level of competition will have long-gone by time he gets out of prison).

 

[Viper]

andrew hardingVerified account

‏@BBCAndrewH
Quote:
We can, and will, all disagree on the source/nature of #OscarPistorius grief. But i don't believe anyone in court today saw it as an "act."

BIB From BBC the Live coverage. Quote:
Justine Lang BBC News, Pretoria tweets: ANC Women's League member walks out of court, "I am tired of this movie, he is performing!"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26934343

 

[strydohj]

I don't know, I could be way off lol. If they're under the balcony then it makes sense that they could have blown off while she was drying her clothes.

They were under the bathroom window. To the best of my knowledge it would be poor taste to hang your laundry over a balcony rail in an upmarket security complex.:facepalm:

 

[Rumpole]

IMO
If Nel continues with his newly adopted "Pit Bull Poodle" style when he cross examines OP... he will make himself look like more of a jerk and achieve nothing. Perhaps even generate some extra sympathy for OP.

It would be nice if the Judge could step in and put a halt to all this? In the same way a Ref steps in to stop a boxing match.

I see no way that Nel can disprove OP's version (beyond reasonable doubt) All the evidence to date and more to come will be irrelevant. What does need to be argued/debated is SA law and how it applies, and of course the penalty in this specific set of circumstances. That should involve legal submissions to the Judge by lawyers on both sides. I think a large amount of compassion for OP should be applied. The apparent HATE I find unpleasant to read.

The firearms charges always were a blatant ploy to introduce inadmissible evidence. I think the Judge should dismiss them for that reason alone. Besides.. the only charge that has any validity is the Restaurant thing, and I imagine that would be accepted as an accident, warranting a fine if anything.

ALL IMO of course.
:tyou:

 

[lisasalinger]

Just saying a quick hello all :seeya: These 4am nights are killing me. I fell asleep during the lunch adjournment and haven't seen the conclusion of testimony yet... I have my coffee and I'm ready to dig in.

 

[Carol70]

<modsnip>

BIB Really? Well for the sake of the conversation a hypothetical: How about from the man that ran a red light and crushed your husband's or wife's spine, leaving him/her unable to work and support your the family (medical bills, home, food, family)? Would you sleep in the street and eat bread for the rest of your life before taking his money?

A monetary settlement of a civil case by OP would represent him finally taking responsibility for his actions for the very first time in his life. I would think it would be almost refreshing to him to experience that!

But lets face it, if the two parties don't reach an Agreement soon OP will avoid that responsibility as well, because he is soon to be pennyless and in prison. That's all.

Lol, hypothetically speaking, I had to think about that and find it difficult to answer as I honestly don't know. But this isn't anywhere near the same thing...if a man had been charged with the deliberate and intentional killing of my child, I know with absolute certainty and say with confidence, I would not accept a cent of his. But maybe that's just me!

 

[DebinGA]

OP said RS was cooking dinner at 6:30, did he say when they ate? I think the pressing personal issues that allowed Jan Botha to go first might be that he wanted plausible deniability re his testimony about the food in RS's stomach. Under oath, even he wouldn't have pushed back the meal to 7:30.

 

[Really?]

What word?

Oh I'll find it......it may take me some time.....dog stuff.....lol...but I will find it

 

[lisasalinger]

I don't think either of them had been asleep. He wouldn't (I don't think) have been annoyed at Reeva for not bringing everything in and closing up, because it was already agreed she'd do it before she went to sleep, and she hadn't gone to sleep. He did bring the time of his sleep forward to between 9 and 10pm rather than the 10pm stated in his affidavit. Which, after spending half an hour on the phone to his cousin, having a shower or bath, spending maybe another half hour watching and visiting car sites, leaves between 90 minutes and an hour and a half as the sum of their total evening together. Also, he said they didn't really get together till January, so this whole intense roller coaster took place over just a few weeks.

From the first half of testimony that I've seen so far, his explanation of the night felt very odd and disconnected to me.

For two young people just getting in to the prime of their relationship, on the eve of Valentine's Day when your lover has just brought you a sweet gift... he seemed distant in the way he described their interaction.

Other than being at the dinner table for 45 min or so and laying in bed while Reeva played on her iPad and Oscar was falling asleep around 9pm or 10pm, there seemed to be very little interaction between them that night. At least that's how he described it. In my opinion, he is leaving out vast chunks of what they really did.

Also, I noticed he did not explain what Reeva was consoling him about earlier in the day. I may have missed that bit, but don't recall anything about that.