Trial Discussion Thread #20 - 14.04.08, Day 18

[jay-jay]

Ok, that was definitely weird!

Oh! I thought Soozie was joking when she posted that! (I missed half of this stuff in the trial today, because of bad streaming) .. oh my goodness!

 

[katydid23]

I think his emotion lends a great deal of credibility to his account. There's simply no evidence that he intended to kill Reeva or flew into a rage at 3:00 a.m. and killed Reeva as a result.

I know that many really want his story to be false; they want him to be guilty; they don't want this to be a tragic and irreparable accident. But the evidence is just not there.

Oscar's testimony seemed truthful.

I don't think his emotional turbulence lends all that much credibility to his version of events that tragic night. We have no way of knowing what the source of the emotion truly is. Is it for himself or for his victim?

As for evidence, there are a few things which make his story seem implausible. For one, his overlooking her whereabouts when he retrieved the gun, inches away from where he thought she was. Why go shooting a deadly weapon without verifying where the person was that you are trying to protect?

And why were there no lights on where she was innocently using the bathroom?

Why would he run down that long dark hall, vulnerable on his stumps, towards unseen danger? He had several safer options. He never used panic button, called police for backup, or the security detail nearby.

Those things make his story seem improbable, imo. At the very least, reckless, negligent and maddeningly irresponsible.

 

[soozieqtips]

Believe me, when you discover someone in such a condition, even if to the rest of the world there is no hope, you tell yourself it's not happening, your instincts take over and you say and do anything to make it 'not true'.

I don't think most people have any rational control over themselves, you can be the calmness most collect person in everyday life.....but when faced with such horror you fall apart.

One minute ok,...the next not! Human nature.:twocents:

Honestly, how many cases have you heard of when someone's accidentally 'killed' someone, realises they're still alive, and yet doesn't bother to get them any help at all? I cannot accept that he thought she was still alive and just sat there while her life was extinguished. He denied her medical help when she most needed it, although that's depending on whether she was actually alive or not. I can't tell when he changes what he's said. Maybe Nel can get to the bottom of it. All I know is that instinct should propel you to get help for the person, not just sit there while they're dying. He was collected enough to ring Stander though.

 

[Gryffindor]

Nel said: "There is no evidence to support Pistorius' burglar claim".

So I'd say that was a tad more than 'maybe'...

Perhaps it would be prudent to wait till Nel's actually questioned OP before deciding that he has no case.
He knows more about it than you or I do, after all.

Only thing with that is, there is no evidence to support the State's premeditated murder claim :-\

 

[soozieqtips]

Oh! I thought Soozie was joking when she posted that! (I missed half of this stuff in the trial today, because of bad streaming) .. oh my goodness!

No. He really said that!! I think I'd be too embarrassed to admit that if it were me :floorlaugh:

 

[Lyra500]

So, she wasn't breathing and he sat with her for an indeterminate length of time, but he says he called Netcare and was planning to drive her to the hospital and when Dr Stipp arrived he had his fingers in Reeva's mouth in an attempt to revive her. Really?

 

[Lyra500]

Only thing with that is, there is no evidence to support the State's premeditated murder claim :-\

There is the testimony of several reputable professional people who heard an altercation and then gun shots.

 

[jay-jay]

So not many hearts or minds have been changed by Oscar's testimony. I suspect that those who already found him guilty would be smearing him no matter how he came across on the stand.

Same could be said for those who wish to believe he killed her in all innocence

 

[soozieqtips]

There is the testimony of several reputable professional people who heard an altercation and then gun shots.

Those who think he's innocent don't take any notice of the witness testimony, even though the witnesses have no reason to lie, and OP has every reason. The witnesses are part of the evidence that OP knew who he was shooting.

 

[katydid23]

He was immediately expressing extreme sorrow and regret. This is not something that has just now been ginned up for trial.

So then why did he tell security that he was fine, while Reeva was still breathing and needed urgent assistance?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Perhaps that is because most adults do it in private. Coming unexpectedly across my fiancé dead of a heart attack, I let out blood curdling screams, I cursed at God and I screamed words that I am ashamed at to this day - and I believe all the neighbors heard as it was spring and the windows were open. FOR DAYS AND NIGHTS afterwards they heard me in my neighborhood doing the same thing. I've never screamed so loud and long and talking/screaming before or since..... for days and nights. NOTE: If you have a friend who has a death of a close one, do NOT let them be alone

But you are VERY on target for one thing, I was protesting his death, and wanted to be comforted - but it was beyond reach. .......ok, enough of that and back to Reva.

Yeah, within his testimony he's reaching out to ONE PERSON to identify with him perhaps (therefore the strange reference to the Israeli dance/judiasm?...gotta get religion in there)

I am very sorry for your loss. It must have been horrendous.

I think OP's situation is very different. It is nearly 14 months post Reeva's death and it seems he has moved on, apart from when he is in court that is. He has been seen out nightclubbing/partying, has a new girlfriend, is having fun holidaying with friends, all reported in the press.

 

[jay-jay]

He did show a great deal of emotion. But his initial emotional testimony was all about HIMSELF. HE had nightmares, kept smelling blood, couldn't sleep, etc etc. Poor Oscar. :violin:

I think that was what put me off so much. His initial apology could have been more Reeva oriented. It could have been one in which he took the blame and held himself accountable. But he appears to be throwing everyone else, including Reeva herself, under the bus. If she had only closed the doors like he asked her to do before she fell asleep, he wouldn't have had to shoot her?

Yup, that is all classic DV stuff.

Edit: .. oh hang on a mo, I've just fallen down the rabbit hole, haven't I .. I'm taking that thing he said about her closing the doors to be actual fact < doh >

 

[Insp.Dots]

“You are an remarkable man or woman with so numerous blessings,” she writes, “and you are more than cared for. Your well being and future monetary blessings far out way this hurdle I can guarantee u that.”


Read more http://www.insurangle.com/reeva-steenkamp-texts-sick-people-want-to-fill-her-head-with-doubts.html

Reeva also texted in this context: "... and you are a nice guy."
It seems, somebody had claimed the opposite of "nice guy" this morning/afternoon. Why should Reeva ever have written that sentence? A financial meeting with great problems I don't believe. There have to be some other problems than "well being" and "money" - something that had offended him personally. IMO

Could this be to do with the out of court settlement thing from the girl at his party? I know it was only actually settled after Reeva's death.

 

[TrueDetective]

I miss Trooper.
Tropper, where are you. I need to read your thoughts on the most provocative part of the trial to date. We are coming to the heart of it and I would love to know what you think of the proceedings this week.

 

[steveml]

There is the testimony of several reputable professional people who heard an altercation and then gun shots.

Only 1.

Estelle Van der Merwe.

Awoke an hour before shooting to hear people talking in loud voices as if arguing.

Unable to say which direction or which house this was coming from.

The rest did not hear an altercation, they heard screaming/shouting/calls for help, but none of them claimed to hear any argument or fight.

 

[Interested Bystander]

The way OP was sobbing sounded like genuine grief to me. In my own life, when I've experienced the loss of a loved one, my voice sounded very similar and deeper than it typically sounds when I've cried at other times that didn't involve such a life-altering loss. The only times in my life when I've cried like that have been after my father passed away, after my mother passed away, and after a close friend's death.

I recognized the pain in OP's voice when he broke down. It's a pain that comes from one's core.

I think he regrets his actions.

I don't need to think of OP as an unfeeling monster in order to also believe that he deserves to be punished for killing Reeva.

I don't feel sorry for him, even though I believe his pain is genuine.

OP is 100% responsible for shooting Reeva. OP is 100% responsible for the sorrow he has caused Reeva's parents. Despite his own suffering, Reeva deserves justice.

What troubles me about his emotional state is that he seems to have moved on in his normal life. RS death is now 14th months ago. I would expect him to be upset but not out of control after this length of time. It just doesn't ring true when one reads he is out partying, holidaying with friends, has a new girlfriend, seen joking with he lawyers at lunch in the last few days.

 

[Lyra500]

What troubles me about his emotional state is that he seems to have moved on in his normal life. RS death is now 14th months ago. I would expect him to be upset but not out of control after this length of time. It just doesn't ring true when one reads he is out partying, holidaying with friends, has a new girlfriend, seen joking with he lawyers at lunch in the last few days.

Exactly.

 

[steveml]

Yup, that is all classic DV stuff.

Asking somebody to close some doors? Get real.

I'd better not ask my partner if she'll put the alarm on then tonight

 

[Gryffindor]

There is the testimony of several reputable professional people who heard an altercation and then gun shots.

1 witness alleged arguing.

Although arguing and shots aren't conclusive proof / evidencefor premeditated murder . . .

 

[cece5300]

Joining in the discussion here, hello all!

What's the concensus around here? I don't know all the facts and I'm torn, he's definitely emotional. I'm sad for all parties involved here but especially Reeva. So sad

I'll go read back a few pages and try to catch up a little