Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[nastasya]

bbm - I believe you may have missed the memo, OP is now claiming that he woke up, RS asked if he was having trouble sleeping to which he replied in the affirmative, goes and brings the 2 fans further into the bedroom but didn't unplug them, closes the sliding doors and blackout curtains but sees RS's jeans on the floor and picks them up and goes to cover the led light on his wall unit something or other, then hears the bathroom window sliding all the way open... then he freaks out, gets his gun, whispers to RS to call the police and then heads on down to confront "intruders" that he had no intention to shoot to kill, with his black talon bullets. If I missed anything, sorry, but there were a lot of changes....

He hit the toilet door, saw an opening and was tempted to peak in and see if it was Reeva, hit the door two more times, ripped out the boards, then didn't look in to see if it was Reeva and instead leaned over the door to pick up the key, not noticing her dead body, then unlocked the door from the outside, opened the door and saw Reeva not breathing, but still alive, then sat with her for 5 minutes before calling for help but trying her password protected phone to call for help.

Oh, and that his defense team wrote up the affidavit that he signed that contained false information.

 

[aa9511]

Anybody have a feed yet? I want to listen to those birds chirruping.

I heard on BBC radio this morning a commentator saying how media are all agonising about how Nel will approach his cross with OP, and if he will risk going in hard to anger and pressure him. That's a fascinating question for me too - I think OP simply won't answer if he's put under pressure.

By that, I mean he'll 'refuse' by means of breaking down. I don't think he is accustomed to being forced to do something he doesn't want to, somehow.

Oh I think there will be a totally different Oscar we will see during cross. He is used to being able to put the blame on others (as in Derrin with restaurant-shooting incident and Derrn and police both during car-shooting incident). During cross, he won't be able to do that without getting called-out for it. IMO.

 

[steveml]

This raises a great point.

In the affidavit the killer claimed that he felt trapped inside the locked bedroom.

But in his testimony he claimed that he went to sleep and told Reeva to lock up for bed.

How did he know the bedroom door was locked? He never tried to open it.

I'm not too sure of the angle here?

If he normally locks the bedroom door at night, he'd presume it to be locked when he gets up.

If he asked Reeva to lock up before bed, he'd presume it to be locked when he gets up.

When he got up that morning with his gun to tackle the intruder, he wouldn't naturally go to the bedroom door,
as he'd presume it to be locked when he gets up.

 

[minor4th]

I'm not too sure of the angle here?

If he normally locks the bedroom door at night, he'd presume it to be locked when he gets up.

If he asked Reeva to lock up before bed, he'd presume it to be locked when he gets up.

When he got up that morning with his gun to tackle the intruder, he wouldn't naturally go to the bedroom door,
as he'd presume it to be locked when he gets up.

I'm pretty sure OP testified yesterday that he locked the door when he got ready for bed. I think he also mentioned the locks don't always hold that well.

 

[04009margaret]

Did anyone else pick up on the different times Reeva was not breathing , then breathing, then struggling to breathe ? Forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't he say after breaking in the toilette he got to Reeva and she wasn't breathing ? Then after carrying her downstairs he put his fingers in her mouth because she was struggling to breathe !

The biggest point that came out for me today was he totally smashed the perception of him being so unstable & barely able to move on his stumps. Today he claimed he ran on his stumps

 

[aa9511]

O:...so I could get to the toilet to pick her up. I could see her arm was broken...I sort of knelt down...I pulled the carpet. I saw her cell was in the toilet, so I got it out, tried to call for help but it had a passcoe on it I couldn't access.

I ran to the bedroom, both my phones were there. I ran back to Reeva. I then phoned Jan Stander; lived in the estate, someone I'd become a firend with. Ask for help because I couldn't pick Reeva up.

R: that call was 3.19.03

HOW ABOUT CALLING THE AMBULANCE OR SECURITY TO "HELP" FIRST??????? HUH, OSCAR. Answer that, why don't ya.

 

[aa9511]

O: I was trying to pick R up, but I couldn't pick her up - I was scared I was going to hurt her more....so I sort of pulled her arm across her body

R: Can I just stop you there...(Says about time OP made first calll)

O:...I could see R was struggling to breath. I called 911. He told me I must Gt R to hospital, musn't wait

OP says he doesn't remember making call to security when R asks.

Yes, as the poster above mentioned, I remember yesterday before his sobbing session he said when he opened the door, he saw Reeva and she wasn't breathing. :facepalm: His story is already getting jumbled up even during his own direct. He is going to get crushed during cross, JMO.

 

[nastasya]

I'm not seeing Helpless Disabled Man. I'm seeing able-bodied, can do anything anyone else can, until its in my best interest to be Helpless Disabled Man. But I'm hardly impartial.

I agree wholeheartedly he isn't the brightest crayon in the box which surprised me a lot. I expected him to be savvy and he really isn't. I do hope Roux reiterates it isn't good to simply regurgitate defense talking points repeatedly.

My guess is Roux know's the killer as well as anybody by now. Roux is doing his job, but I would be shocked if he finds the killer likable, especially now that the killer has thrown Roux under the bus.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Um, I'm not sure I can listen to Pistorius testimony now... but I think he got some position's wrong compared to the statements.

And not only the fan part debate, which I listened to, where he completely blamed different positions on police ineptitude/sabotage rather than his mistake or an untruth.

Also, did he lay ground, in his odd statements yesterday, about a person of authority 'caring' for him in his police conversation and car ride, that could be some grand collusion for him?

Plus, he says it was Clarice Stander that called all those important people, like herself (a first-responder lawyer) his brother, lawyer, family, best friend business partner and his other team in a helpful murder defendent call-centre.

About witness veracity, I have no idea what he saying here. It doesn't sound like honest testimony: “I’ve been sitting here and telling the truth, and some of it would be from the truth, and, what the state has furnished me, with a mixture of what I can remember. But, on some of the points, and on some of the things it could be a reconstruction. If I look at the time I can’t remember how much time, certain things took me that evening. But I can see form the time of the phone calls that are being made that people’s testimony and statements, not just the statements that the state called, but the hundred and something witnesses that the Sate said they have; I read most of those and all of the statements and that show I have reconstructed some time. Some of the things I remember, that I’ve spoken about myself, that I’ve spoke about what I remembered…in contact of information I have.”

I thought so, that OP is talking without point and comma, because I have seen an interview that I did not understand a single word.
I'm only following on twitter and I do know why. :smile:
Though I would think, he is very eloquently.

 

[minor4th]

Ok, Nel is being confusing with his questions and nitpicking semantics - I want him to ask substantive questions.

 

[minor4th]

IMO The judge seems to be somewhat protective of OP.

 

[04009margaret]

WOW a legal expert is tipping that the DT will ask the court for a postponement in the morning due to OP being emotionally unwell. They are predicting the court will have to allow it.

 

[Viper]

The biggest point that came out for me today was he totally smashed the perception of him being so unstable & barely able to move on his stumps. Today he claimed he ran on his stumps

I got that from his testimony yesterday too when he said he went to brush his teeth on his stumps. If it's so hard for him to move around on his stumps, why would he go into the bathroom to brush his teeth on his stumps? And why would he go to confront Mr. Armed Intruder, hiding in the WC, on his stumps? Does not add up, as usual with this guy.

 

[zwiebel]

Um, I'm not sure I can listen to Pistorius testimony now... but I think he got some position's wrong compared to the statements.

And not only the fan part debate, which I listened to, where he completely blamed different positions on police ineptitude/sabotage rather than his mistake or an untruth.

Also, did he lay ground in his odd statements yesterday about a person of authority 'caring' for him in a police conversation and car ride, that there's some grand collusion in SAPS for him?

Plus, he says it was Clarice Stander that called all those important people, like herself (a first-responder lawyer) his brother, lawyer, family, best friend business partner and his other team in a helpful murder defendent call-centre.

I have no idea what Pistorius is saying here. It doesn't sound like honest testimony: “I’ve been sitting here and telling the truth, and some of it would be from the truth, and what the state has furnished me, with a mixture of what I can remember. But, on some of the points, and on some of the things, it could be a reconstruction. If I look at the time, I can’t remember how much time, certain things took me that evening. But I can see from the time of the phone calls that are being made that people’s testimony and statements, not just the statements that the state called, but the hundred and something witnesses that the State said they have; I read most of those and all of the statements and that show I have reconstructed some time. Some of the things I remember, that I’ve spoken about myself, that I’ve spoke about what I remembered…in contact of information I have.”

Thank you so much for posting that complete bit of transcription. I've been kicking myself all day thinking, what can't I get it down, why can't I seem to hear the actual answers in all his words. Your post has given me some idea of why I had so much trouble....

 

[minor4th]

WOW a legal expert is tipping that the DT will ask the court for a postponement in the morning due to OP being emotionally unwell. They are predicting the court will have to allow it.

I hate to say it but I would not be totally surprised if OP had a complete mental and emotional collapse, landing him in a psych hospital before the trial is over.

 

[soozieqtips]

WOW a legal expert is tipping that the DT will ask the court for a postponement in the morning due to OP being emotionally unwell. They are predicting the court will have to allow it.

Have you got a link please?

 

[nastasya]

I'm not too sure of the angle here?

If he normally locks the bedroom door at night, he'd presume it to be locked when he gets up.

If he asked Reeva to lock up before bed, he'd presume it to be locked when he gets up.

When he got up that morning with his gun to tackle the intruder, he wouldn't naturally go to the bedroom door,
as he'd presume it to be locked when he gets up.

He had to walk by the bedroom door to kill the person in the toilet.

In his affidavit he claimed the bedroom door was locked, making him feel trapped.

He went to get a gun under the bed where he claims he believes Reeva was sleeping, and instead of gathering her and exiting the bedroom, away from the alleged intruder, he entered the bathroom and shot four times.

He claimed his motivation was to protect Reeva ("I whispered to her 'get down'"). Protecting Reeva would have been staying with her, and securing her safety by taking her out of the bedroom.

 

[Bazinga]

Reeva, she didn't bring in the fans & shut the patio door

Blame game

Stander - he said put her down stopping OP from taking Reeva to hospital

 

[BritsKate]

WOW a legal expert is tipping that the DT will ask the court for a postponement in the morning due to OP being emotionally unwell. They are predicting the court will have to allow it.

I think they'd allow a very temporary adjournment to have Oscar evaluated to see if he could progress the rest of the trial while still maintaining an active role in his defence. They're not going to adjourn for any length of time though - they'd be more likely to declare a mistrial.

Again - he's going to have to be evaluated by experts on both sides (unless Nel concedes, which I doubt) or one independent appointed for the court - they aren't just going to take his word for it.

JMO

 

[minor4th]

minor4th - have you got to the part yet where OP admits certain details in his affidavit are untrue, but explains them away by saying he wasn't there when it was written? He appears to have knowingly signed a document that he knew contained incorrect information and did not at any point attempt to correct it. I'd like to know your thoughts on that based on the whole Mrs Stipp incident where she was accused of being a liar and had her credibility demolished - even though she did correct her error, and OP did not... now OP is in the same situation (but without having seen fit to correct his error) and I'd like to know what your feelings are on this so far.

Are you talking about the part where Nel is questioning him about walking "onto" the balcony? That's as far as I've gotten, but I haven't heard OP say that he wasn't there when the bail aff was written or any of that?

If that's the issue you're talking about - I would say he should have been more accurate with his wording so as not to give a misleading impression that he was on the balcony. However, I do not equate this with Mrs Stipp giving a statement that she saw someone in the window when she didn't see such a thing.

But maybe there's more about the affidavit that I haven't gotten to yet.