Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[Gbtaketwo]

OP is the one who brought up how allegedly 'loving' their relationship was, so he opened the door for Nel's line of questioning. If he wasn't prepared to defend his description of the relationship, he shouldn't have claimed in his BH affidavit: "We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way."

Exactly . That's why I think Nel did a great job in having it on record that he hadn't told Reeva he loved her .

 

[Bazinga]

So, im struggling to keep up today but from what I can gather, all we have learnt as fact today is that OP is negligent with guns?...and we all knew that anyway as a woman is dead because of it.

We've learnt a few other things too.
Facts
Oscar believes Reeva was lying in her message as he never had tantrums and on other points
Oscar believes Roux has misrepresented him in regards to double taps, Ms Taylor's testimony not being challenged, and in other ways and that Roux's assistant hasn't passed notes from Oscar to Roux.
Oscar believes the gun at Tasha's fired spontaneously while in his hands
Oscar's statement is that the shooting out the sunroof is a lie and the result of collusion, it never happened.

It must be frustrating for Oscar that neither Nel nor Roux have explained to Oscar how to word his answer about shooting the door and the unidentified person behind it - accidentally, without thinking, not deliberately, but in self defence, not to kill anybody but in order to protect Reeva...
so that he has committed no crime.
No wonder he felt confused and started crying again.:banghead:

 

[Trooper]

I don't even see why he needed to put his finger through that bit while having the gun passed to him .. surely, you put your hand/fingers 'around' it, not through the actual trigger?

most would... and of course, you have to do things in sequence.. pull the safety lock back. it requires a little bit of pressure... a definite movement, over the fulcrum.. it doesn't slide by itself...

nothing in a gun happens by itself... it is completely inert until the human hand performs the necessary movements of the mechanics to make it fire.

 

[Carol70]

Really? I thought he heard the window before and door after. I can't keep up!

Yep, heard window open, screamed, door slam..

 

[Val1]

About the ammunition in the safe . I thought it was in his bedroom safe unless I have got confused with the crime scene photo's
Was it actually in the kitchen one ?

OP said that he kept his cleaning kit in the safe in the kitchen area and the .38 ammo in the safe in his closet(for which he blamed his father). He did finally admit that he has left his magazine unsecured in his nightstand on occasion, well kind of... :/

 

[steveml]

Can anyone explain, please, what happens after the prosecution and the defence finish presenting evidence? Does each side do a summing up?? Also, when Milady and her assistants go away to deliberate, how long is that likely to take (difficult question I appreciate), hours, days, weeks, months???

Thanks in advance for any info.....

After closing arguments (summing up), the court will adjourned until a later date when Masipa will hand down the verdict. Her judgment will contain a summary of all the evidence. She might also comment on the credibility of witnesses.

When sentencing proceedings start, the state will call witnesses to testify in support of aggravation of a sentence while the defense will call witnesses to testify in support of mitigation of sentence. After witnesses are called on both sides, the state and defense will deliver closing arguments.

It's a total guesstimate, Judge Masipa may preside over the verdict for possibly 3 weeks or much more.

 

[Gryffindor]

Oh oh headache's back . . . . :-(

 

[Freya1977]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he yelled at the intruder/s after he heard a door slam. His story has changed somewhat so I can't be sure what's what all the time :smile:

ETA: Okay, correction. The 'noise' he heard after he yelled is now the toilet door slamming.

http://news.sky.com/story/1238791/oscar-pistorius-describes-night-of-shooting

Thought so... Cause I was trying to rationalise why she might slam it as he was saying that, and the answer I got was in response to him yelling.

 

[Cherwell]

according to op version of events, rs must have been the person that opened the bathroom window. and the person that closed the toilet door as she entered - the second noise he said he heard that led him towards the toilet door...

according to op version of events, from this point he was screaming to intruders to get out of my house as he edged his way towards the bathroom.

it is plausible that rs may have wanted to keep quiet - to keep her whereabouts a secret from perceived intruder. she would not know where oscar thought intruders may have been.

but
she had her phone with her... is it plausible that she didn't use this to text/phone an alert to anyone. she had the time from op first screaming as he moved from the bedroom, to the corridor, to the bathroom corner.

.......
just trying to test op version of events

If she'd have spoken on the phone with an "intruder" in the bathroom, her voice could have got her killed. Texting doesn't get immediate help, especially at that time of the morning. Most people presumably asleep.

If she was trying to keep quiet, she wouldn't have slammed the door. She would have closed it quietly.

The addition of the "slamming of the door" detail destroys his story, IMO.

 

[atthelake]

If you are in a room where the door opens outwards is it possible to slam it???

Perhaps, but iirc the door it opened up to the toilet as in all houses I've been in...inner doors open into the furthest room. Pretty standard I thought in homes. All doors open away from you as you move into the home. Front doors open INTO the house...bedroom doors open INTO the bedroom...toilet doors open INTO it.

 

[04009margaret]

From what I've read the Glocks are made purposely for fast shooting and when there is a bullet in the chamber the hammer is almost fully cocked so there is only a minimal amount of trigger pressure needed to fire. The shooting may well have been accidental as he wasn't used to handling this type of weapon and he didn't realise how responsive the trigger mechanism was.

He knows exactly how it handles, the video of him using that exact same gun on a shooting range is out in the public forum for all to see.

 

[jay-jay]

she may have had time to scream if there was a gap, but as to whether op heard any screams [or anything else]... didn't op cover this by saying the noise of the gun going off caused him to be temporarily deafened.

i have no idea whether temporary deafness would be the case.
but it was a confined space.

It's difficult to know just how loud/deafening that would've been .. none of us having been in that situation .. but I'm just wondering if they are overplaying this? Sure, it must be pretty loud, but when something is loud enough to make your ears hurt, you stop doing it .. I find it hard to believe that OP would've fired the first shot, and then 3 more in quick succession if it was so uncomfortably loud, and he would've just stopped after the first one.

 

[zwiebel]

They're back, although it seems to be without sound.

 

[Freya1977]

They're back

 

[Trooper]

ok ... saddle up. . its on again

nel.. I know you've read statements, listened to evidence.. based on that you've given the court a version...

correct milady

tell the court what you can remember.. not whats been reconstructed..

I do understand, its hard for me.. memories are reconstruction..

up until the time I went to sleep..... I couldn't remember the number of shots.. I do now, because I know there were four.. but

 

[Freya1977]

I have no sound on my feed

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I believe OP & his father are estranged. :dunno:

This is what I thought and yet when I was analysing his phone records for the day before the shooting I thought there were 2 phone calls between him and his father .
I don't know how I worked it out but will try and find out again and post .

 

[Gryffindor]

Does it matter? She was reported screaming by at least 4 witnesses.

They testified to a WOMAN screaming, not Reeva

 

[Cherwell]

On the messaging "I love you" front, addressed by Nel.

2/3 months into a relationship, there's no danger I'd say "I love you" to a partner after that short space of time, even if I felt that way.

Notably, Reeva hadn't said it to Oscar either, so unsure why Nel's unfairly picking Oscar up on it?

She did say "I'm the girl who fell in love with you". My guess is that she wanted him to say it first.

 

[MeeBee]

Nel will try to get him to admit to the now.