Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[jay-jay]

That's funny because I thought it was in front. (They're both black and I have double astigamatism so perhaps you're right.)

I had thought that was the only time today he'd been honest though too. I'm not certain how much it really matters. It's a big gulp to believe that the police purposefully moved evidence - a little too conspiracy theory for me on top of it's never Oscar's fault. The totality is going to decide this case imo. Is Oscar lying or is it everyone else in the known universe?

57:19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwzV3uB9UrI .. deffo goes under the corner of the speaker .. the cord would have to have a very sharp kink in it to run along the outside of the corner of the speaker ..

 

[Magdalyn]

Confirmation that her phone was indeed with her in the toilet at 2 am :doh: also. I would assume that there was no call out or texting out or we would have heard such in the trial.

It does make me wonder if there was an incoming text that she perhaps wanted to privately read without Oscar seeing it? I'm trying to think of reasons she would have the phone in the toilet other than the one you mentioned. Any other thoughts?

I think she ran in there as the closest safe place while he raged about any number of stupid childish/controlling things to begin with. I think she may have just happened to have her phone in her hand when the fight started. Or she grabbed it up quickly on her way into the bathroom.

Yeeeeears ago I once went over to a boyfriend's house (before everyone had cellphones) to break up with him. We had only dated a few months. He had never shown any signs of violence or even verbal abuse up to this point. He started going violently ballistic. Screaming at me, raging around the living room, kicking things, punching walls....I stupidly ran to the bathroom and locked myself in. (Why didn't I go for the front door?! Uhn!) I was scared spitless, the bathroom was windowless, and if I'd had a cellphone, it'd been clutched in my hand for sure.

As it was, I waited until it sounded like he'd moved on to tearing up his kitchen cabinets, and snuck out of the house then. Drove home shaking.

Never went back.

Anyway, since in my entire life, I'd never seen anyone just go from zero to rage like that, let alone seen anyone beat up a house like that, I think I was stunned stupid. Went to animal instinct. I just wanted to maybe...hide from the predator? Like be in a hole? Like the walls were safer than the open air of running through the house and then outside. So I went to the nearest lockable bathroom. That's the only explanation I can come up with as to why I didn't go for the front or back doors. Maybe I was afraid he'd catch me and I'd be the next thing he heaped abuse on.

IMO, any argument they'd had could have turned into Reeva threatening to break things off or just turned into him going ballistic. It may have had to do with something on her phone, that she was still using her phone while he was trying to sleep, that he tripped over her G**D*** jeans on the floor for the 97th time.....

Anything.

It's my belief she ran into the bathroom, already had her phone in hand, or grabbed it on the way, and locked herself in to get away from his raging....she may have been thinking who to call for help (it's hard to think when the dude you thought you knew has turned into a maniac on the other side of the door), or maybe she really thought he'd cool down in a few minutes.

Then he shot through the door. :twocents:

Sorry if it's TMI, but you did ask...

 

[jassy writer]

If screams of a female were heard by neighbours, why did the closest ones not hear?

It might be due to their location, or to the fact they had windows closed / fans or aircon on. Or just that they were deeply asleep. Sure it will all come up in evidence or cross examination.

 

[steveml]

If Nel really wanted to catch OP out with the cable, surely he would have gone to the house and measured every available place the cable's length would allow the fan to reach in the bedroom??

I think so. There's been so much importance placed on these fans, you'd expect it to be a really big play.

Nel didn't seem to nail him with a great deal, therefore I think he was winging it a bit with the cable lengths, approaching things from a different angle to try and catch OP out.

 

[jay-jay]

Oh woops, lol sorry, getting my own wires crossed now

.. very good

 

[turaj]

I like how Nell calls a gun a gun...why is it that defendants and their counsel always call it a firearm??? Does it sound less deadly??? It is a gun!!

 

[04009margaret]

Oscar really is the unluckiest guy in the world isn't he? Nothing is his fault, everyone else is lying including his beloved dead girlfriend, his friends. Even his defence team have made mistakes, not him. Plus guns just magically discharge themselves in his presence. Police move evidence. So unfair!

And the biggest conspiracy, the police planted the 2 fans, ipads, doona, curtains, patio door, all in the exact place needed to make it impossible to go to the balcony to scream help, help, help. But wait for it, they also turned the light on & placed the lead to the small fan under the speaker. Why did they do it? To discredit OP, even though at the time they had no idea what his version of events would be.

 

[MeeBee]

I'd expect him to have checked the actual items in question, in the house. He surely wouldn't introduce this question if he wasn't sure of his ground.

I think he could introduce it just by looking at the photograph and saying, "that's not long enough." He doesn't really need numbers to make this claim. I feel like if that was his evidence he would have introduced it by now. I guess we'll find out tomorrow though.

 

[Gryffindor]

who says they didn't hear?? them... or Roux??

Them in their statements

 

[G.bng]

There's a Glock university here, with a video on safety. I think it's official.

http://us.glock.com/confidence/university

Just now on Sky the legal adviser of the day by coincidence has the same Glock. He explained exactly what must have happened, i.e. Fresco passed the pistol to OP not only one up but with the magazine still in it. OP, who obviously did hear Fresco tell him it was one up, emptied the chamber in order to test the feel of the trigger, but as he didn't check to see if the magazine was in it when he pressed the trigger another bullet had been chambered so it fired.

The guy was also adamant that it is impossible for the Glock to go off without pressing the trigger unless being hit, dropped or caught up none of which is claimed by OP.

 

[zwiebel]

Glock Safe Action Trigger (Explained)

Glock Safe Action Trigger (Explained) - YouTube

That's interesting because it specifically says the little plastic safety catch prevents it going off 'if it snags on your pants'. Which is exactly what Darren told Tasha's owner it had done.

I can't recollect now, did Darren say Oscar asked him to say exactly that, or just take the blame?

 

[Interested Bystander]

it was photod before it was moved and after it was moved to check for blood stains underneath.. spatter stuff. etc.

Did we hear that the forensic officer put it back on the bed or left it on the floor after moving it?

 

[Cherwell]

If screams of a female were heard by neighbours, why did the closest ones not hear?

According to a press report they had their TV on and only heard the final shots.
I don't think this is verified as they could be called as defence witness's and state for sure what they did or didn't hear

It might be due to their location, or to the fact they had windows closed / fans or aircon on. Or just that they were deeply asleep. Sure it will all come up in evidence or cross examination.

Yes, could be any of several reasons. I have neighbours who both use headphones a lot - one might be watching TV while the other listens to music while working on the computer. They often don't hear their doorbell, so they wouldn't hear noises from another house.

 

[Viper]

And the biggest conspiracy, the police planted the 2 fans, ipads, doona, curtains, patio door, all in the exact place needed to make it impossible to go to the balcony to scream help, help, help. But wait for it, they also turned the light on & placed the lead to the small fan under the speaker. Why did they do it? To discredit OP, even though at the time they had no idea what his version of events would be.

^^^^This^^^^

OP insists, to support his innocence, that all of the above happened and the DT is going to show that it happened. OP himself said that with the fan where it is he could not have made his way on to the balcony. For all intensive purposes this case is over. But let's carry on debating who moved all that stuff and turned on all of those lights and why they did all of that before the forensic photographer began taking photos of the crime scene...

 

[Val1]

If screams of a female were heard by neighbours, why did the closest ones not hear?

Since I don't believe the closest ones have testified yet, we don't know what they heard. Apparently they heard crying(so far only Roux's claim, like Oldwage's? dogs barking)... but when, where, how long and even whether they heard two sets of "noises" too ... ? If there was an argument, one or both of them could have been crying to start with, then escalating to anger/fear, threats/chase, screams, etc.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Same as yesterday, the evidence photo discrepancies are not going to go away. They'll keep recurring again and again.

This should have been addressed by both parties and the judge prior to this stage of the trial.
It's absurd that you can question somebody using two sets of photographs with the evidence in a different position each time.
It allows you to pick and choose which one suits your case.

Yup, I don't envy the judge trying to work out what matters and what doesn't.
I have no doubt that the Police errors in this case are going to make a difference to Judgement and Sentencing, it's just a question of what difference. IMHO

As things stand I have no doubt he is NOT telling the whole truth and his mistake is speaking too much from a legal point of view and not a witness.

I understand why he is doing that, but think he'd be better leaving the Lawyers to argue the points of law, and answer the questions as shortly and honestly as he can. I think they are going to regret not pleading guilty to at least one of the gun charges.

I KNOW I'll be hammered for this but I still don't see Pre med or Intentional has been proven.

I see him as an immature, cocky Celeb who saw himself as above other people. I have no doubt that he has been like that at least since he started winning and gained more and more attention. He is one of those who blames everyone and anything else rather than admit he's wrong. He is incapable of looking after himself and his own responsibilities as there has always been someone there to pick up the pieces.

IF he is found guilty of anything, he will still blame either the Police or his legal team. Which, for me is why the errors in the crime scene evidence are so critical and should never have happened!

Having said all the above, I do not see a cold and calculating killer, for one thing, he's not clever enough! I WILL decide upon the Intruder story when I've heard the remaining defence evidence.:fence:

 

[zwiebel]

Did we hear that the forensic officer put it back on the bed or left it on the floor after moving it?

I think I remember it was just unfolded on the floor, and then Col VR?? saw the blood inside.

 

[G.bng]

That's interesting because it specifically says the little plastic safety catch prevents it going off 'if it snags on your pants'. Which is exactly what Darren told Tasha's owner it had done.

I can't recollect now, did Darren say Oscar asked him to say exactly that, or just take the blame?

Just take the blame... Darren said he would say it caught on his pants

(For anyone reading my other post about the Glock I have been mixing Darren up with Fresco so where I say Fresco I mean Darren.. in the other post)

 

[MeeBee]

Since I don't believe the closest ones have testified yet, we don't know what they heard. Apparently they heard crying(so far only Roux's claim, like Oldwage's? dogs barking)... but when, where, how long and even whether they heard two sets of "noises" too ... ? If there was an argument, one or both of them could have been crying to start with, then escalating to anger/fear, threats/chase, screams, etc.

Yes, for now I'm going to have to wait to hear what they say. It's possible the only reason they only heard crying was because the second set of bangs is what woke them up or alerted them.

 

[soozieqtips]

09.07 On Reeva's claim that she was scared of him sometimes,

Oscar says that she was scared of the feelings she had for him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...756728/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial-live.html

I think it's interesting how OP interpreted the words 'scared of you'to mean 'scared of the feelings I have for you.