Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[aa9511]

N: Did you have your finger on the trigger?

O: No Milady

N: You had the gun in your possession....

Now O launching into an amazing explanation how the firearm went off while his finger was NOT on the trigger...

N: You just refused to accept responsibility...

bbm

Oh thank you Nel for finally just coming right out and saying it.

 

[shane13]

Didn't think so, I'm also wondering if it's a reference to Reeva's dad & the word son is a mistake.

Well yesterday's Mirror was it, does say that Barry S will try to attend the trial soon.

I posted on that.Since he has had recent strokes, it is said that he is risking his life to do so. I personally hope he does not risk his life. Reeva would probably tell her beloved Dad not to risk his life. Of course, I am sure he would like to look Oscar in the eye...

 

[soozieqtips]

SABC News Trial Coverage
sabcdigitalnews

https://www.youtube.com/user/sabcdigitalnews

Interesting clip. The crime analyst said there was a narcissistic theme throughout, with OP solely focused on his needs within the relationship. He doesn't accept blame for anything that went wrong in the relationship, turning things around and placing any blame firmly at the feet of Reeva Steenkamp. He says his behaviour is triggered by her behaviour, when Reeva has already outlined in her messages that she is scared of him because she doesn't know how he's going to react to the things she does.
-----------------------------
What I took away from today is that OP has an aversion to admitting anything that portrays him as reckless or untrustworthy. Even when the proof is there (the gun HAD to have had the trigger pulled) he can't concede a thing.

 

[Trooper]

Val, would you recall which session, or approx time that was? Somehow missed that.

Very important IMO.

As you knoiw I continue to highlight how cops on scene may have given evidence to OP's siblings or atty to illegally take from the crime scene. Today we learned that cops gave the .38 ammo to OP sib or atty, but a few hours later asked for it back.

Fascinating that Cops or Nel did not insist, for 16 days, on gettting back the 5th phone!

you will find a fair bit about that, on Van Stadens testimony, the photographer, and Roux x-examination of him.

 

[Trooper]

you will find a fair bit about that, on Van Stadens testimony, the photographer, and Roux x-examination of him.

and just off the cuff.. I think he flits around in Van Rensburgs x-examination by Roux, also..

 

[aa9511]

Nels.. why did yu plead not guilty to discharging the firearm???

Oscar.. I didn't discharge it.

Nel.. How can that be?? you had the gun.. it was in your possession. are you telling this court you didn't have your finger on the trigger??

No I didn't.

Nels. I see.. I see .. lets look at this. you had the gun.. the gun went off you didn't discharge it..

Oscar. as the gun went off, I realized that Darrin had passed me a gun with one up. it went off.

Nels is flabbergasted..

Nels. I must accept the gun went off by itself??

Oscar. I only know. when I checked the gun it went off.

nels. you just refuse to take responsibility.

Nel,,, one thing we can say , mr fresco was negligent..

Oscar... Mr Fresco was negligent in passing me the gun..

Ahhhh....I see where Oscar is taking this.....tomorrow he is going to come out with new claim that his new defense is he is pleading Not-guilty b/c the store which sold him the gun should be held liable for selling him the gun. The shopkeeper should be the one on trial, but of course, not him!!!

 

[kittychi]

Yup, I don't envy the judge trying to work out what matters and what doesn't.
I have no doubt that the Police errors in this case are going to make a difference to Judgement and Sentencing, it's just a question of what difference. IMHO

As things stand I have no doubt he is NOT telling the whole truth and his mistake is speaking too much from a legal point of view and not a witness.

I understand why he is doing that, but think he'd be better leaving the Lawyers to argue the points of law, and answer the questions as shortly and honestly as he can. I think they are going to regret not pleading guilty to at least one of the gun charges.

I KNOW I'll be hammered for this but I still don't see Pre med or Intentional has been proven.

I see him as an immature, cocky Celeb who saw himself as above other people. I have no doubt that he has been like that at least since he started winning and gained more and more attention. He is one of those who blames everyone and anything else rather than admit he's wrong. He is incapable of looking after himself and his own responsibilities as there has always been someone there to pick up the pieces.

IF he is found guilty of anything, he will still blame either the Police or his legal team. Which, for me is why the errors in the crime scene evidence are so critical and should never have happened!

Having said all the above, I do not see a cold and calculating killer, for one thing, he's not clever enough! I WILL decide upon the Intruder story when I've heard the remaining defence evidence.:fence:

But how can it be proved that the errors were all police errors? Besides OP, there were others upstairs...Clarice Stander, his sister Aimee, very likely others too before the police arrive. Any one of them could have moved or taken anything.

 

[kittychi]

Yup, I don't envy the judge trying to work out what matters and what doesn't.
I have no doubt that the Police errors in this case are going to make a difference to Judgement and Sentencing, it's just a question of what difference. IMHO

As things stand I have no doubt he is NOT telling the whole truth and his mistake is speaking too much from a legal point of view and not a witness.

I understand why he is doing that, but think he'd be better leaving the Lawyers to argue the points of law, and answer the questions as shortly and honestly as he can. I think they are going to regret not pleading guilty to at least one of the gun charges.

I KNOW I'll be hammered for this but I still don't see Pre med or Intentional has been proven.

I see him as an immature, cocky Celeb who saw himself as above other people. I have no doubt that he has been like that at least since he started winning and gained more and more attention. He is one of those who blames everyone and anything else rather than admit he's wrong. He is incapable of looking after himself and his own responsibilities as there has always been someone there to pick up the pieces.

IF he is found guilty of anything, he will still blame either the Police or his legal team. Which, for me is why the errors in the crime scene evidence are so critical and should never have happened!

Having said all the above, I do not see a cold and calculating killer, for one thing, he's not clever enough! I WILL decide upon the Intruder story when I've heard the remaining defence evidence.:fence:

BBM: But how can it be proved that the errors were all police errors? Besides OP, there were others upstairs...Clarice Stander, his sister Aimee, very likely others too before the police arrive. Any one of them could have moved or taken anything. Not necessarily on purpose to contaminate, but in horror.

 

[shane13]

Didn't think so, I'm also wondering if it's a reference to Reeva's dad & the word son is a mistake.

Well, Margaret, there have also been rumors since the outset of trial that Henke P would attend trial at some point, maybe at the end.
But perhaps what came out today might deter this.

I have long said that I doubted .38 ammo was Henke's because Henke lives far away in Capetown area and the 2 have been estranged for circa 5 years.
Today we learned that Henke was not willing to give Pros. an affidavit saying that ammo was his.

Thus perhaps from Oscar's view...more estrangement?

 

[Viper]

2:11:34 day 19 Part one.He says he could have tripped over the fan as he ran out on the balcony.Says He could have pushed the fans.

Thank you, but IIRC Nel was questioning him about the extension cord and the fan cord, so his answer was not the fan itself but the cords on the floor.

I am so blown away with OP stating clearly in his answer today that he could not get out on to the patio with the fan where it is in the photos. That so many things were moved by the police before the photos were taken. That he has experts that will prove that things were moved, and incredulously that includes that very large fan blocking the door! That is his testimony, that is his version of the events. That has zero chance of being believed by the Court. This is opening up to be even more bizarre than I even could have imagined. Honestly I do not understand why Mr. Pistorius did not flee the country months ago, truly.

 

[soozieqtips]

But how can it be proved that the errors were all police errors? Besides OP, there were others upstairs...Clarice Stander, his sister Aimee, very likely others too before the police arrive. Any one of them could have moved or taken anything.

Exactly. Why does everything have to be blamed on police error when everyone and their uncles were roaming around upstairs and downstairs before the police even arrived. Regardless of all that, I think Nel is going to continue to trip OP up in the next few days, maybe by showing he would have seen Reeva get out of the other side of the bed as well! OP already had to admit he would have seen her get out of the balcony side, so Reeva had to have slid over to the other side of the bed to get out. Wonder how Nel will describe that version.

 

[nastasya]

If she was trying to keep quiet, she wouldn't have slammed the door. She would have closed it quietly.

The addition of the "slamming of the door" detail destroys his story, IMO.

I don't doubt he screamed "Get out of my house!" and Reeva slammed the toilet door and locked it.

 

[aa9511]

Lol, I do. I know I do. Everyone does. No one is perfect.

Apparently Oscar thinks he is.

 

[Trooper]

one thing is very nearly certain.. the gun and ammo charges will be dealt with first, probably the next day after the closing arguments..

probably.. maybe. a custodial sentence on those until the verdict is handed down.. which wont be as long as some think.. that's why Judge Masipa has Assessors..

 

[emmavoberry]

But, I mean, whose relationship is? We fight, we get the things that bother us out in the open, we make up.

In this relationship, the upshot was that one of the partner's was killed by the other. As that other is on trial for her murder, and the prosecution's theory is that the defendant killed her during an argument, it makes sense to scrutinize the relationship carefully, in detail, as well as the defendant's character. Yes, any relationship has its ups and downs, but most do not end in homicide. The prosecutor is establishing that there is a pattern here--arguing, Reeva's fearing OP, OP getting angry and jealous--and that OP, as about other facts, is lying as to the relationships's nature. Unfortunately, Reeva can not tell the judge what happened the night of her death, so the prosecution must push Oscar and must use every available piece of evidence that suggests OP was egotistical, temperamental, volatile, controlling, jealous, and had anger management problems in the context of their relationship. Let's not forget, witnesses, credible or not, claim to have heard heated argument before hearing the shots. This would be some lame prosecutor if he did not go in the direction he is going. I think he should ask the defendant why he and Reeva, or so it appears, did not have firm plans to spend Valentine's day together, but drew them up at the last moment.

 

[liesbeth]

But how can it be proved that the errors were all police errors? Besides OP, there were others upstairs...Clarice Stander, his sister Aimee, very likely others too before the police arrive. Any one of them could have moved or taken anything.

Does anyone know how long it was from the time Dr. Stipp left until the time the paramedics arrived?

 

[gajonka]

Nel now reading OP's apology. It mentions how he was 'simply trying to protect Reeva' and 'she felt loved'. OP breaks in:

O: I'm terribly sorry that I took the life of their daughter.

>>>>>>>>>

Based upon what I've seen so far from this morning ( first hour or so), it appears OP might actually escape the charges.

Can someone issue a nut-shell review of where Nell went today? For example:

1. Questioning his first statement, his apology to the Steenkamp family.
2. Never let her know he lover her via text. Reeva used I love you twice in text- setting evidence that it was in her text-set, but those were sent to her Mom/family, NOT OP.
3. OP picked on, screamed, yelled, nagged Reeva and she did not like it.
4. OP had his friend take the blame for the rogue shot in the restaurant, because he did NOT want the truth to come out, showing that he is not truthful.
5. Evidencing rogue handling of the gun clip- LE encounter.

Where did Nell go from here ? (Hope not too much to ask, just not able to view now, and it would be the best to receive your perspective - and your interp on the meaning behind Nell's direction and content:

Love ya,

G

 

[soozieqtips]

Crime analyst also saying it's interesting that despite OP having no communication with his father, "that his father would have had a key to OP's house and his safe, and would be able to enter his home when he wasn't even there, in order to put ammunition in a safe. These are glaring inconsistencies in the story yet again".

https://www.youtube.com/user/sabcdigitalnews

ETA - she also said that OP is coming across as an unreliable witness because he's not prepared to concede the obvious (the gun discharging without him pulling the trigger).

 

[Emz73]

I don't doubt he screamed "Get out of my house!" and Reeva slammed the toilet door and locked it.

Didn't he hear the slam AFTER he had done the whispering, shouting, crying, going back to get his gun then slowly edging by the wall, I think she would of slamed the door a while before that. Also slowly shutting it if you're trying to be quiet.

 

[shane13]

Crime analyst also saying it's interesting that despite OP having no communication with his father, "that his father would have had a key to OP's house and his safe, and would be able to enter his home when he wasn't even there, in order to put ammunition in a safe. These are glaring inconsistencies in the story yet again".

https://www.youtube.com/user/sabcdigitalnews

I disagree with this. The so-called talking heads on MSM often do not know much of the story.

It could be re Henke, but I doubt it.
It has been stated that when OP was first gettting famous and rich, his father was his first manager, and allegedly stole from him. And the two hardly have had any contact since that time of circa 5 years ago.

Given all this, it is doubtful Henke would have a house key and access to safe. Indeed Henke would not do an affi for Pros on this issue.

ETA: I just got to that point in video.It seems that the reporter was only giving Oscar's excuse or such for the ammo in his safe.