Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[molly333]

Except for the evidence to consider--a witness hearing one. A witness who has nothing at stake in the outcome of the trial.

But she doesn't know for sure who she was hearing or what she was hearing, does she?

She can't identify it as Oscar and Reeva.

 

[shane13]

No. OP has only said that it was not working. Perhaps Roux has another witness that will testify to the fact that the light was not working. Until then we only have the word of the defendant, who has reason to lie.

MOO

Well Dixon today noted it, I heard. But was not pressed to explain why/how it was not working.
I think this is almost absurd.
What if OP broke a light bulb after the shooting?

Soemhow I wonder if he is claiming it was related to what the workers were doing?

 

[TipDog]

I need something that sets him off into a murderous rage against the most beautiful girl he has ever met.

Anything could have. This wasn't about Reeva or her beauty and certainly not about how he felt about her.

This was entirely about Oscar.

I think this may be why it's so hard for some people to believe he could do this impulsively - pick up his gun and shoot Steenkamp knowingly through the door.

I firmly believe he wasn't really shooting her in his mind at the moment, just at her, in rage - which is how his psyche is able to keep up the charade of insisting it was all just one big accident due to his fear/panic/vulnerability/disability/stupidity (well, that and lots of rehearsal over the last year, I'm sure).

He's already proven himself to be a liar on the stand simply by refusing to take responsibility for the gun incidents. Lying is okay to him, even on the stand, as long as he keeps telling himself that it was an accident that wasn't his fault and that others made him do it...and then expressing this outward wailing of emotion (that quite frankly is creepy and odd and not at all the norm of someone grieving after a full year).

Reeva got in the way of Oscar at some moment during those hours leading up to her death. None of us will ever know why and maybe even someone on here has uncovered exactly the reason. But unless OP confesses every detail that night, we are not gonna know. And he's not gonna confess even though his version of events makes no sense.

Oh, and yes, all of the above is IMHO.

 

[soozieqtips]

OP didn't know there was a "killer" in the house. He claims he thought it was an intruder. But (assuming his version), he didn't even know if the intruder, locked behind a closed door, was even armed. As we all now know, there was only one killer in the house that night and it wasn't any intruder.

Personally, I wish Reeva could have called the police to tell them there was a killer, OP, in the house and then none of us would be be having this discussion. She'd have either lived or there would be solid evidence of what really happened that night.

When Nel was pressing OP on the details after the murder... he blubbered something like "I was shouting and yelling. I wanted to ask Reeve why she is phoning the police"... which sounded totally like she was in the process of phoning the police about something he'd just done to her (?) and that's when he went nuts. That sentence is completely out of place in the context of what had just happened. He'd murdered her. Why did he say " I wanted to ask Reeve why she is phoning the police" after he'd murdered her? Because he may well have said those words to her before. It's all guesswork because you can't trust anything he says to be factual.

 

[molly333]

Then why did Reeva not call? What was proven as to why she did not call?

It's just a loose end, kind of left hanging there, I think.

I can make up a reason she didn't call--she hears Oscar going nuts screaming at someone to get out of his house, she locks herself in the dark toilet room, and listens by the door, trying to figure out what's going on.

Slamming the door even fits in with this.

 

[TorisMom003]

Are the people in OP's old neighborhood that selfish that they would keep quiet about an argument between the Mr. and Mrs. to save face by letting OP take the blame for arguing loudly with Reeva that night? Or does it make more sense that if it was someone else that they would come forward and say it was them?

 

[minor4th]

Except for the testimony to consider--a witness hearing one. A witness who has nothing at stake in the outcome of the trial.

The witness heard a woman's loud voice talking

 

[DebinGA]

What kind of pressing appointment might drive him to kill his girlfriend? :waitasec:

I think if we made a timeline starting with early September 2012 when OP lost that important race to the Brazilian, and immediately announced the guy had cheated, we'd find a downward spiral of reported bad acts leading up to Feb. 13. By that afternoon I think he'd learned from that "advisor" that his livelihood was in serious jeapordy. Reeva filing a police report would have been the last straw for his sponsors and his fictional good-guy image.

 

[minor4th]

Are the people in OP's old neighborhood that selfish that they would keep quiet about an argument between the Mr. and Mrs. to save face by letting OP take the blame for arguing loudly with Reeva that night? Or does it make more sense that if it was someone else that they would come forward and say it was them?

Perhaps they have come forward and this will be presented during the defense case.

 

[TipDog]

Because OP never told her to call police.

Because Reeva did NOT have her phone with her in the toilet room.

We only have OP's word, which is meaningless at this point IMO, that he even told her to phone police or that she had her phone in the toilet room.

If OP shot and killed Reeva intentionally does anyone really expect him to tell the truth?

And there's the rub...

 

[Cherwell]

Anything could have. This wasn't about Reeva or her beauty and certainly not about how he felt about her.

This was entirely about Oscar.

I think this may be why it's so hard for some people to believe he could do this impulsively - pick up his gun and shoot Steenkamp knowingly through the door.

I firmly believe he wasn't really shooting her in his mind at the moment, just at her, in rage - which is how his psyche is able to keep up the charade of insisting it was all just one big accident due to his fear/panic/vulnerability/disability/stupidity (well, that and lots of rehearsal over the last year, I'm sure).

He's already proven himself to be a liar on the stand simply by refusing to take responsibility for the gun incidents. Lying is okay to him, even on the stand, as long as he keeps telling himself that it was an accident that wasn't his fault and that others made him do it...and then expressing this outward wailing of emotion (that quite frankly is creepy and odd and not at all the norm of someone grieving after a full year).

Reeva got in the way of Oscar at some moment during those hours leading up to her death. None of us will ever know why and maybe even someone on here has uncovered exactly the reason. But unless OP confesses every detail that night, we are not gonna know. And he's not gonna confess even though his version of events makes no sense.

Oh, and yes, all of the above is IMHO.

I agree with you. I think he just lost it, and fired off the shots like an angry toddler throws his toys across the room.

 

[shane13]

OP didn't know there was a "killer" in the house. He claims he thought it was an intruder. But (assuming his version), he didn't even know if the intruder, locked behind a closed door, was even armed. As we all now know, there was only one killer in the house that night and it wasn't any intruder.

Personally, I wish Reeva could have called the police to tell them there was a killer, OP, in the house and then none of us would be be having this discussion. She'd have either lived or there would be solid evidence of what really happened that night.

I was referring to OP.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Only one big problem with the "accident" defense.

The accused provided direct non-impeachable testimony that he was not shooting at an intruder.

So which shot was the accident? The first that hit her hip? Maybe the second that hit her arm?

And the fourth shot the exploded from the gun by itself that hit her brain? Was the fourth shot an accident?

Remember, OP testified he was NOT shooting at an intruder.

So we have a dead body, and a confessed killer who denies he was shooting in self-defense.

What exactly is his defense then?

loving this.
op so keen to try to clear himself of all blame. steps right into even more trouble. he really is a very arrogant but silly boy.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Marking my spot...

 

[soozieqtips]

Well Dixon today noted it, I heard. But was not pressed to explain why/how it was not working.
I think this is almost absurd.
What if OP broke a light bulb after the shooting?

Soemhow I wonder if he is claiming it was related to what the workers were doing?

I wondered that too. How could he have known it wasn't working on that night? He wasn't there! Do we know the exact date he tested it?

 

[TorisMom003]

OP's behavior on the stand during his cross is exactly why some saw shades of Jodi Arias in him. In trying to "one up" the State, to prove that he is "smarter" than the State, he screwed himself. Instead of listening to the question asked of him, he tried to anticipate where the State was going with the line of questioning.

All the same things that Jodi did during her cross, and then some.

MOO

 

[Cherwell]

But she doesn't know for sure who she was hearing or what she was hearing, does she?

She can't identify it as Oscar and Reeva.

I'm inferring that it was, because she said that later she and her husband heard crying, which he identified as OP. If that came from a different direction she would surely have said so.

 

[molly333]

No, i don't think we need a reason for the argument/fight. It could have come out of all sorts of issues.

Unless someone else comes forward and testifies that they were up late arguing, I think we can conclude that it was OP & RS. Mrs van der Merwe heard arguing. While she was not sure of the source, they later heard crying which her husband identified as OP. I think if that came from a different direction she would have said so.

We should check her testimony again. I thought it was Mr. Johnson who identified Oscar crying. Not saying I'm right. These witnesses all merge into one after a while.

It would go a long way if a witness could identify them specifically as the ones having the fight. And, we need two witnesses. But I'm not sure we have that.

 

[Magdalyn]

But she doesn't know for sure who she was hearing or what she was hearing, does she?

She can't identify it as Oscar and Reeva.

I'd tend to give her account credence when combined with others' accounts of screaming and other shot-like sounds from the same general area within the same general time period.

Besides, according to Oscar, he can never-ever-ever duplicate his scream as it's never happened before and never will it happen again, so how can anyone in the whole wide world, least of all his neighbors, ever 'for sure' identify what Oscar sounds like, while screaming/arguing, or what Reeva sounds like in a terror?

Tough luck Oscar can't re-enact that scream, and it was a only once in a lifetime scream. If only he could just duplicate it for the ear-witnesses. That, in combination with the I Love You Card Evidence (I kid, I kid!), we'd have this thing solved, like, yesterday!

 

[TorisMom003]

Here's another thing that points to Reeva NOT having her phone with her in the toilet room, the phone was locked. Now if someone fired the first shot at me and it hit my hip and I have my phone with me that phone will be unlocked and 911 would have been dialed.

Remember, there was a pause between the first shot and the final three.

MOO