Trial Discussion Thread #27 - 14.04.16, Day 24

[molly333]

Then my pc speakers are better than I thought they were because you could almost feel the power in the gunshot test whereas the bat one sounded like my neighbour working on the fence or chopping wood.

The gunshot was the same sound but more powerful.

But if you didn't listen to them side by side, you couldn't tell the difference.

Which we already know because Stipps thought they were both gunshots.

 

[beach]

That's not the way it works.

The way it works is that there were two sets of sounds, both of which sounded like gunshots [Stipps].

So gunshots--woman screaming--gunshots

The witnesses who only heard one set of sounds thought they were gunshots because both sets of sounds sounded like gunshots.

But, only one set of sounds was gunshots.

Re. BBM -

Well that is consistent with what this defense expert said about the sequence of the shots - 1st shot to Reeva's hip, <insert scream> 2nd shot nearly amputated her arm <insert scream>, shots 3 & 4 ricocheted and hit Reeva in the head. <end of screams>

So, this defense expert's testimony is consistent with the State's sequence.

<insert that Who's On First video here>

 

[james83]

That's not the way it works.

The way it works is that there were two sets of sounds, both of which sounded like gunshots [Stipps].

So, gunshots--woman screaming--gunshots

The witnesses who only heard one set of sounds thought they were gunshots because both sets of sounds sounded like gunshots.

But, only one set of sounds was gunshots.

Right so you are saying that you belive option a, the burgers and van der merwe heard the alleged cricket bat on door noise but didnt hear actual gunshots?.

 

[DebinGA]

IIRC Capt. Mangena indicated Reeva's right arm was bent, as if reaching to cover her head, and the bullet went in the front, out the back, and hit her in the shoulder?

 

[Freya1977]

That's not the way it works.

The way it works is that there were two sets of sounds, both of which sounded like gunshots [Stipps].

So, gunshots--woman screaming--gunshots

The witnesses who only heard one set of sounds thought they were gunshots because both sets of sounds sounded like gunshots.

But, only one set of sounds was gunshots.

No that's exactly how it works... the ones that only heard one set were too far away to hear the cricket bat sounds so only heard gunshots

 

[shane13]

Wow Did he really say that ?
There is no way her arm could have been anywhere near that door handle after the hip shot. She would have been instantaneously thrown backwards and started to collapse . There was clearly a gap in the shots IMO

Yes I heard him say that, and you can read the quote.

See I am on to Oscar-Speak and Roux' methods too.

And don't forget Nel got Dixon to reluctantly admit that he met with Oscar who prob. told him what he was going to say re firing after allegedly hearing the door start to open.

The rest is now history.

 

[james83]

No that's exactly how it works... the ones that only heard one set were too far away to hear the cricket bat sounds only heard gunshots

Exactly

 

[zwiebel]

To make up for me eating the cheesecake. German fried eggs.

They aren't burnt. That's chocolate on the bottom.

(for guests who can't see the attachment, they are candy).

 

[Gbtaketwo]

IIRC Capt. Mangena indicated Reeva's right arm was bent, as if reaching to cover her head, and the bullet went in the front, out the back, and hit her in the shoulder?

Thats what I understood as well which again means there was a pause long enough for her to fall and take a defensive position after the hip shot .
This is just heartbreaking to think of

 

[aoibhinn]

5 people say they heard gunshots, 2 of them heard another set of sounds.
So what is more likely
(a) 3 of those 5 people heard the alleged sound of a bat hitting a door but didn't hear gunshots
(b) 5 of those 5 people heard gunshots, 3 of them didn't hear the other set of sound's.

Also consider the 2 people who heard the other set of sounds were the closest to O.P's house.

BIB Good point. If the gunshots and bat sound similar (note: not identical) with the gunshots being substantially louder, then it's likely the Stipps heard both acoustic sets while those further away only heard the gunshots.

 

[Freya1977]

To make up for me eating the cheesecake. German fried eggs.

They aren't burnt. That's chocolate on the bottom.

(for guests who can't see the attachment, they are candy).

Yummmmmmnn!!!!!

 

[molly333]

Re. BBM -

Well that is consistent with what this defense expert said about the sequence of the shots - 1st shot to Reeva's hip, <insert scream> 2nd shot nearly amputated her arm <insert scream>, shots 3 & 4 ricocheted and hit Reeva in the head. <end of screams>

So, this defense expert's testimony is consistent with the State's sequence.

<insert that Who's On First video here>

LOL. Well, no, because the two sets of 'gunshots' were separated by ten to fifteen minutes.

But some of the witnesses did say they heard screaming throughout the 'gunshots,' with last scream after last 'gunshot.' Those witnesses were hearing Oscar scream as he tried to break open the door with the bat.

Remember one witness thought a woman was watching her husband being shot. She heard a woman scream throughout the 'gunshots.' And, we know that probably wasn't possible for Reeva to scream throughout the real gunshots and definitely not afterwards.

 

[Bazinga]

Think its safe to state I'm a little embarrassed being South African atm.

Why?
I think the state (your representative) in the form of Nel is doing you proud. What Oscar did to Reeva plus his behaviour in court and this "all-in-one expert" are no reflection on SA.

 

[Freya1977]

BIB Good point. If the gunshots and bat sound similar (note: not identical) with the gunshots being substantially louder, then it's likely the Stipps heard both acoustic sets while those further away only heard the gunshots.

Yep! That's exactly right

 

[Val1]

The gunshot was the same sound but more powerful.

But if you didn't listen to them side by side, you couldn't tell the difference.

Which we already know because Stipps thought they were both gunshots.

Yea and we also know that Dr. Stipps had been wakened by them and his coughing wife so may not have heard them clearly and Mrs. Stipps was not only having the coughing fits but was flu-ish. Besides all that, what else would anyone think upon hearing loud banging sounds at 3am so no wonder there is some confusion, something OP excels at creating.

 

[aoibhinn]

Thats what I understood as well which again means there was a pause long enough for her to fall and take a defensive position after the hip shot .
This is just heartbreaking to think of

And a pause long enough to deduce that she would have screamed in pain

 

[Freya1977]

LOL. Well, no, because the two sets of 'gunshots' were separated by ten to fifteen minutes.

But some of the witnesses did say they heard screaming throughout the 'gunshots,' with last scream after last 'gunshot.' Those witnesses were hearing Oscar scream as he tried to break open the door with the bat.

Remember one witness thought a woman was watching her husband being shot. She heard a woman scream throughout the 'gunshots.' And, we know that probably wasn't possible for Reeva to scream throughout the real gunshots and definitely not afterwards.

I put it to you that the actual gunshots may well have been the second set of sounds, and the screaming WAS Reeva. OP's ex girlfriend says he does NOT "scream like a woman"

 

[luvmygarden]

Oscar is not looking happy

Now he sees what winging testimony looks. Looks familiar I bet.

 

[Emz73]

And we are back to arguing about the obvious again. I'm going out to enjoy the Sunshine. Thanks to everyone's input this morning! Really helps as I watch it.

 

[molly333]

BIB Good point. If the gunshots and bat sound similar (note: not identical) with the gunshots being substantially louder, then it's likely the Stipps heard both acoustic sets while those further away only heard the gunshots.

Unless they slept through the real gunshots and woke up to [Oscar] screaming, followed by the bat strikes.