Trial Discussion Thread #27 - 14.04.16, Day 24

[wb180]

BBM I think he admitted to screaming that because he actually yelled that at Reeva and needed a cover for saying it.

Also because various witnesses heard screaming so he had to cover up for that too. As he said, he reconstructed some scenes because he read too much stuff over the past year.

 

[elfie]

I just can't help but be very very suspicious of the fact that these cricket bat tests are done outside, it doesn't make sense and i wonder if there would be such a dramatic echo if they were tested from inside a room like the actual incident itself.

I do think the sound would be more pronounced from inside a fully tiled bathroom where the waves are bouncing off of the surfaces. Seriously! Testing outside makes no sense for comparison's sake.

 

[Carmelita]

Respectfully, I disagree. I believe he used the verbs "rush" and "run," and the adjective "slowly" to add credibility to his made up version where needed - I honestly found his affi and testimony to sound just like some fictional story where we are just expected to believe the character did what he did as it is simply written that way and not at all like a real recounting of what actually happened. So, by very nature of my thinking he's concocted one big false version makes him deceitful in my eyes. Also, I'm a simple gal - when you tell me you have limited mobility, I don't ever imagine you rushing to do anything or running from one room to the next. I would expect you to use more phrases like "moved as quickly as I could" or "walked as fast as I can." I'm splitting hairs in some ways, but these are strictly my thoughts on why I see duplicity. I'm not trying to persuade anyone to agree if they don't.

We will just have to agree that our minds work differently. And I'm ok with that.

I try not to attribute words that I "think" someone would likely use to other people. I think personalities are far too diverse and complex to say one would have, should have or could have, expected "Blade Runner" to say "I moved as quickly as I could" as opposed to rushed or ran about.


JMO

 

[TrueDetective]

So why would he lie about that?

To explain why she didn't turn on the bathroom lights?

Who can think of all these details under duress?

To check her texts? Have you noticed how connected people are to their phones? Some of them have even developed sleep disorders because they are so attached to their devices. Weren't there two iPad's charging right next to Oscars bed?

Checking her texts at 3am? Possible but unlikely.
But at 3am and doing it in the bathroom? Come on, seriously...

And then to combine that with the series of unusual and unfortunate events, amazingly coincidental timing of it all happening concurrently and the total lack of responses at any point?
Fantasy island.

 

[molly333]

Hopefully you have plenty of uncooked rice on hand in your kitchen. My daughters friend took her phone into our bathroom one night, dropped it right in the water.

Does the phone work afterwards? I was wondering if that might have happened to Reeva.

 

[minor4th]

Yes, although I was originally onboard with Stipp, I think testimony of the form "I know what I heard. I've been around guns. Those were gunshots" can now, pretty much, be put aside. (I'm guessing even the good Dr. Stipp may be inclined to agree by now.) In the heat of the night, it would be easy to confuse the two, so I don't mean to insult the witnesses. In fact, bravo to the witnesses; it's not an easy thing to appear before the world as they have done.

I am not claiming the two kinds of loud bangs are identical in sound. They may be quite distinct, once the listener, scores of meters away, is primed to notice the difference.

Yes, I agree. I think the witnesses reported they were gunshots because that is what they sounded like in the moment. I think Dr Stipp even conceded that could be the case when he testified.

 

[DebinGA]

Oscar did - it was after the gunshots. I don't think that's something that's disputed though?

Not possible, even if OP fired the shots at 3:00, because the Stipps immediately looked out and noticed OP's house with bathroom light ON while OP claims to have been backing slowly down the dark passage, into the dark bedroom, feeling around the bed, on the bed, on the floor on the other side of the bed, on the curtains, putting on his legs, hollering for help on balcony iirc, and then returning to bathroom down dark passage and THEN turning light on in dark bathroom.

 

[Feynman]

And it wasn't dark in the passage/bathroom as OP says it was. The light was ON.

I've seen no evidence for this claim.

 

[wb180]

I have PROOF. I can prove to everyone he is lying about these parts at least.

Im speaking from experience here about grabbing my gun in the middle of the night and checking my house for an intruder and I can guarantee you 100% certainty that you

1-NEVER EVER go charging or fast in the house towards the noise.
You always carefully and quietly go explore where the sound is coming from.

Because you want to be stealth and not let the intruder know where you are OR you could be shot by them.

2-You NEVER EVER shout out to the intruder to get out of your house until you find out if its an intruder or not. Every single time I have explored for intruders in the middle of the night with my gun (at least 3 times), I ALWAYS am very quiet and NEVER want to give my location away as they could then hurt me first.

3-100% of the time I ALWAYS first let my significant other know to STAY PUT and do not leave the bed for any reason at all. I demand this of her as I show her I am leaving with my gun and she then knows that she should never leave the room due to the obvious danger if I was to somehow ever mistaken her for the intruder. This is why I ALWAYS make sure where she is first and order her to remain put.

4-If I ever heard noise in the house and I could not find my spouse, I would always assume it was her 100% of the time and would NEVER assume it was an intruder.

I would NEVER even go for my gun if I did not know where she was.

If an intruder had entered my house and killed my wife in the kitchen, I would most likely be killed by intruder stumbling into the kitchen thinking it was her.

Yes I think the majority of people know OP is a liar once he finished with his testimony. It is very obvious.

But somehow there is a minority who defies all common sense and logic and conflicting evidence because some can't think of a hero as a villain or they keep holding onto the idea of "presumption of innocence", when in fact they aren't really holding onto such idea. Rather, they just think he is innocent.

 

[TipDog]

\

I would wager that 9 out of 10 people wouild react the same way. All of a sudden, in the dead of night, you here someone screaming at you to call the cops. I guarantee you will be extremely frightened almost to the point of paralysis. It's all too easy to discuss this from the comfort of our armchairs, but what I see over and over here is people failing to consider the context.

9 out of 10 people who've been traumatized by a previous home invasion or 9 of 10 people who've not experienced any thing that frightening before?

If the former, then I scratch my head as to how you can make that assertion unless you've read studies on PTSD in home invasion survivors. Reeva not only lived in a country where these invasions happen often but was a victim already of one and that cannot be removed from the context.

But yes, we are all in our comfy armchairs, aren't we? I really hope no one on here, including myself, ever go through what that young woman did in her lifetime with the one invasion and then being shot to death through a bathroom door. RIP Ms. Steenkamp.

 

[Val1]

But why not call for help?

Why scream and not call on the phone?

Why say nothing and not call on the phone?

Has anyone brought this up in the case?

She did scream out, just listen to the witnesses' testimonies.

Re her cell, I'm thinking the reason OP was quick to state that he hadn't gone through her purse, when getting it for the paramedics, was what the argument may have been about. She probably went for a snack, came back into the bedroom and found him rifling through her purse looking for anything that would show her to be unfaithful(remember the whole ST thing just a few months previous). Maybe he'd demanded to see her msg history on her cell and chased her for it knocking it out of her hand ... who knows..

 

[clearskies1]

The other things that struck me - after the shots were fired, I don't think he did anything or said anything to establish if indeed anyone was in the bathroom. He didn't call out, listen at the door, try to open the door straight away. For all he knew, the intruder was in the bathroom but not hit and could have come out and attacked him (or whatever).

Yeah, his "version" makes no sense. Afraid the intruder was coming at him out of the toilet, but did not consciously pull the trigger (4X). Why did he stop shooting? His answer: "I don't know". Absurd.

JMO

 

[Panda]

I am embarrassed to admit this, but I take my phone in the toilet with me almost 100% of the time

Even if you get up to go to the toilet during the night?

 

[Hatfield]

I take it you wouldn't turn on any lights either?

What's your opinion of his story? Do you think it at all plausible?

It doesn't sound like he has a lot of 'gun sense.'

Correct that I never turn on any lights when searching my house either. The idea is to search without the intruder knowing you are investigating. You have the element of surprise and you dont want to lose that at all.

I purposely leave small lights on in certain rooms that allow me to explore without needing any flashlights or anything. Like in the kitchen, I have the stove light on at night and I have night lights in certain other rooms. So I can navigate without needing a flashlight.

Also at night, your eyes adjust to the darkness and you can see pretty good so long as there is some small lighting somewhere. Unless it is pitch total darkness which is highly unusual in most places.

Regarding his story, JMO but I am left to think his story is mostly lying. I am of the opinion he had a screaming fight with his girlfriend and she went and hid from him in the bathroom which enraged him even more and he went and got his gun and just blew her away.

 

[wb180]

OP mentioned many times he was too afraid to turn on a light in bathroom or bedroom. Who turned on the light in the bathroom that both Stipps testified was clearly ON around 3:00?

Also, he was too afraid to turn on the light but wasn't afraid to scream like a women as he slowly moved towards the intruder.

 

[Viper]

But why not call for help?

Why scream and not call on the phone?

Why say nothing and not call on the phone?

Has anyone brought this up in the case?

BIB. You just did, brilliantly! Very good questions that lead to the obvious answer - Reeva did not have her phone in the WC with her.

 

[minor4th]

Not possible, even if OP fired the shots at 3:00, because the Stipps immediately looked out and noticed OP's house with bathroom light ON while OP claims to have been backing slowly down the dark passage, into the dark bedroom, feeling around the bed, on the bed, on the floor on the other side of the bed, on the curtains, putting on his legs, hollering for help on balcony iirc, and then returning to bathroom down dark passage and THEN turning light on in dark bathroom.

Dr and Mrs Stipp gave contradictory testimony about this. Dr Stipp said it was "several moments" later and Mrs Stipp first said "moments" and then she said it was "immediately." I think some witness confusion under those circumstances is understandable.

 

[minor4th]

Even if you get up to go to the toilet during the night?

I don't usually get up to go to the toilet in the middle of the night, so it's hard to say. I probably wouldn't though.

Edit: Now that I think about it I probably would take my phone to use as a soft light to illuminate a passage for me. It's very dark without any lights on in my house.

 

[Panda]

Yeah, his "version" makes no sense. Afraid the intruder was coming at him out of the toilet, but did not consciously pull the trigger (4X). Why did he stop shooting? His answer: "I don't know". Absurd.

JMO

What I also find interesting, is the grouping of the shots so close to the proximity of the door handle. Why were they aimed where they were? To my logic (which, admittedly, isn't necessarily sound) - he shot towards a direction of sound.

 

[James50]

If you believe in OP, then she should have called the police as other people have pointed out as it took a long time for OP to shoot her while he was screaming all the time.

In order to reach the police, she had to insert her passcode. In her panic, the phone might have fallen on the floor as she was fumbling around, she might have dialed but not got a signal, she might have wanted to strain to listen first to ascertain what was actually going on, any number of particular scenarios. You cannot say that only a outcome was possible ("she called the police"). This was one is easy to refute, which is why Nel spent no time on it.