Trial Discussion Thread #27 - 14.04.16, Day 24

[Hatfield]

No, that isn't what I meant at all (and it isn't clear to me what you actually mean, sorry). I'm saying that unless you know how those who've survived home invasions would react in a subsequent invasion, you simply cannot assert that they would react a certain way. Assuming RS just froze and strained to listen is a bit of a stretch. I personally won't make any assumptions about what she did or didn't do in those first few seconds. But I do assume she'd not stay silent like OP says she did in the following moments after he initially yelled at her to call the police. If she had her phone with her, I firmly believe she would have called the police (just like you said you bet you would).

Of course, I don't believe OP's version, anyway - and the witnesses heard a woman screaming. So far, I'm not convinced that was OP even if he does cry like a girl.

I do like to consider all possibilities and that is why I sincerely try to take into consideration other people's viewpoints on things.

I could even see where she may have been hiding in fear being quiet in the bathroom not wanting to say anything at first. But where his story fails miserably amongst other parts is when he says he is close to the door. At that point she would know it was him and she would communicate to him. At a mnimum she would whisper loudly and say "oscar, Oscar, OSCAR, what the hell are you hearing out there"

His story doesnt pass the smell test. JMO only of course.

 

[TipDog]

Different points from which to view, I don't think that psychologically you can separate "Blade Runner" from the whinny, crying, retching Oscar. they are one and the same. It is Oscars strive for perfection that made him Blade Runner it is also his inability to accept his imperfections that has landed him in the box.

I think Oscar's back tattoo says a lot about him and his character and his intolerance of his own humanity.

Oh, good points, each and every one of them. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[Val1]

If you are still going to be believe in OP's versions of events, you need to remember he specifically said he never went out of the balcony (even though his bail statement said that).

He also, in his BS, claimed RS was sound asleep when he got up to go onto the balcony... now she's wide awake, speaking to him and he didn't go onto the balcony.

 

[Val1]

Oh, good points, each and every one of them. I hadn't thought of that.

bbm - Yup, right down to ...

1 Corinthians 9:26-27

I do not run like a man running aimlessly;
I do not fight like a man beating the air.
I execute each strike with intent.
I beat my body and make it my slave.
I bring it under complete submission...

 

[wb180]

No, that isn't what I meant at all (and it isn't clear to me what you actually mean, sorry). I'm saying that unless you know how those who've survived home invasions would react in a subsequent invasion, you simply cannot assert that they would react a certain way. Assuming RS just froze and strained to listen is a bit of a stretch. I personally won't make any assumptions about what she did or didn't do in those first few seconds. But I do assume she'd not stay silent like OP says she did in the following moments after he initially yelled at her to call the police. If she had her phone with her, I firmly believe she would have called the police (just like you said you bet you would).

Of course, I don't believe OP's version, anyway - and the witnesses heard a woman screaming. So far, I'm not convinced that was OP even if he does cry like a girl.

My reply was a reply to another poster actually. Essentially, what I am trying to argue is there can be multitude of scenarios on why she could have and could not have called the police and the whole 9/10 people will freeze and not call is not fact but only an opinion.

 

[anagrammy]

Whether Reeva was the one screaming or she was hiding quietly in the bathroom waiting for Oscar to deal with the fantasy intruders, or even if she was in the bathroom hiding from Oscar himself--

Why didn't she call police on her cell phone? This is driving me crazy now.

a) she was afraid of the intruders hearing her and knowing where she was

b) she was afraid of OP, who was reviling and threatening to kill her if she called police and reported what he had done to her.

"What he had done" we will never know. The house says there was a row and the neighbors heard it.

The only thing we know for sure is that he felt she was a danger to him in some way. I believe he hit her and she threatened to report his behavior and that sealed her fate. They may have been through as a couple, but she is a public speaker on the subject of DV and I think he feared her retaliating by making him a public anecdote.

In his paranoid state, I do believe he was "fighting for his life," the life of a celebrity athlete hero that he had worked so hard to build.

 

[James50]

Most smartphones have a emergency feature which means you don't have to input your code. An earlier poster pointed out that records show she had an unbroken GPRS signal all night long (I think this means she never failed to have a signal).

The phone dropping on the floor is possible and the fumbling is possible, but also audible to some degree. The fact she is straining to listen less so given the content and nature of Pistorius' oft repeated message to the intruders. That she was frozen in fear is unlikely given she slammed and locked the door.

Well you know these are just a few possible scenarios, but there are any number. Since no one but Reeva would have known what was going on inside the toilet, it enters the realms of mere speculation, which is no doubt why Nel left it alone.

 

[TipDog]

I do like to consider all possibilities and that is why I sincerely try to take into consideration other people's viewpoints on things.

I could even see where she may have been hiding in fear being quiet in the bathroom not wanting to say anything at first. But where his story fails miserably amongst other parts is when he says he is close to the door. At that point she would know it was him and she would communicate to him. At a mnimum she would whisper loudly and say "oscar, Oscar, OSCAR, what the hell are you hearing out there"

His story doesnt pass the smell test. JMO only of course.

BIB 1

Yes, we all should. I hope I'm not coming across as if I'm not considering others' viewpoints. In the post you quoted, I was referring more to the notion that RS was like any other person with respect to dealing with a home invasion. She wasn't. She had experience of it and was traumatized by it, so there is no telling how she initially reacted (should any of this even had happened like OP claims.)


BIB 2

No, it doesn't. It smells like fresh bull dung on a hot summer's day.

 

[Val1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post
Yes, although I was originally onboard with Stipp, I think testimony of the form "I know what I heard. I've been around guns. Those were gunshots" can now, pretty much, be put aside. (I'm guessing even the good Dr. Stipp may be inclined to agree by now.) In the heat of the night, it would be easy to confuse the two, so I don't mean to insult the witnesses. In fact, bravo to the witnesses; it's not an easy thing to appear before the world as they have done.

I am not claiming the two kinds of loud bangs are identical in sound. They may be quite distinct, once the listener, scores of meters away, is primed to notice the difference.

Yes, I agree. I think the witnesses reported they were gunshots because that is what they sounded like in the moment. I think Dr Stipp even conceded that could be the case when he testified.

The only problem with that, is that it is the first set of bangs that would have primed them to hear gunshots on the second, correct?

 

[TipDog]

My reply was a reply to another poster actually. Essentially, what I am trying to argue is there can be multitude of scenarios on why she could have and could not have called the police and the whole 9/10 people will freeze and not call is not fact but only an opinion.

I mixed you up with James. :blushing:

Sorry.

Sorry, James.

 

[TrueDetective]

But we don't know why it wasn't working that night, if it was even tested to see if it was working, if Dixon checked to see if it was working, and honestly OP lies soooo.

Dixon discussed the WC light in yesterday's testimony:

"I performed a scientific test using an instrument known in forensic geology as a 'finger'. I used this finger to press the light switch which then confirmed to me, to the best of my knowledge, that the light was not working milady.
I then used additional instruments called eyes to confirm the above and then allowed my brain and physical existence to bring all the evidence together milady.
I then made some notes on a napkin to accurately record all these findings.
No I did not check if there had been any previous fault reported to confirm the employer's, sorry i meant the accused's story milady.. quite honestly I couldn't be bothered milady.
I also did not check that the bulb had been accidentally smashed by a cricket bat.
I did not do this because I was satisfied that my initial test was sufficient to reach the conclusion I had been asked to reach.
I also could not do this milady because by then it was nighttime and it was dark and the lights weren't working for some reason... and so I tried to use both my eyes and my finger to make my notes but then I didn't have a pen because it was stuck up my arse milady.
No its true that I am not a qualified electrician milady but I once changed the batteries in my portable gas spectrometer so I am an expert to the very best of my recollection, but I don't actually know how the thing works milady. I think you blow through it or sing it a song. One of the three.
No there is no report milady, because the dog ate it on the way here"


This must have been when the feed went down.

 

[Viper]

\

I would wager that 9 out of 10 people wouild react the same way. All of a sudden, in the dead of night, you here someone screaming at you to call the cops. I guarantee you will be extremely frightened almost to the point of paralysis. It's all too easy to discuss this from the comfort of our armchairs, but what I see over and over here is people failing to consider the context.

No people are not, at least I am not. If my wife speaks softly, whispers, let alone screams at me in the early morning darkness to call the police, my immediate reaction would be to ask her, "Why? The the h*** is going on!?" LOL! This is so basic, so simple.

 

[TipDog]

Okay, time for bed. I've been on here too long today, but really like talking with all of you, so I'm pretty hooked.

Have a nice rest of your evening/day, all.

 

[Mr Ron]

Ron, of course when I say frozen with fear, these are figures of speech. I don't mean that literally. I mean that she would have quickly locked the door and then remained more or less immobile in a state of fear, straining to listen or fumbling around with the phone. Don't take it too literally.

Looking at it from your angle here's a plausible scenario:

Reeva is on the toilet. She hears Oscar scream at her to phone police. Out of the blue this makes her jump and panic, perhaps causing her to drop her phone. Oscar continues to scream at the intruders. Realising this she quickly gets up, slams the door and locks it. This coincides with Oscar suddenly becoming quiet. Due to the change in circumstance and the fact she just made a loud noise Reeva strains to hear, unsure of what has now happened. Perhaps she hears the approach of a person to the bathroom and this scares her into further silence. As Oscar backs up to the wall he again screams at Reeva to phone the police and again screams at the attackers. This again startles Reeva who knocks against the magazine rack...

It is possible and I'm not dogmatic about it, though I still find it more likely that she would use her phone if she had had the opportunity. Further it is one more occurence in a number of odd occurrences, coincidences, additions and errors in Pistorius' testimony and one that was not touched upon in the courtroom. To me it seems to add up to A Series of Unlikely Events. When I have more time I'd like to discuss them, heck, it's why I just joined.

 

[Hatfield]

Okay, time for bed. I've been on here too long today, but really like talking with all of you, so I'm pretty hooked.

Have a nice rest of your evening/day, all.

Night. Yeah, this case is really amazing and addictive. LOL

 

[Hatfield]

No people are not, at least I am not. If my wife speaks softly, whispers, let alone screams at me in the early morning darkness to call the police, my immediate reaction would be to ask her, "Why? The the h*** is going on!?" LOL! This is so basic, so simple.

I think I would scream back in fear. Like "what What WHAT!!!!" "What is going on!!!"

 

[Panda]

Dixon discussed the WC light in yesterday's testimony:

"I performed a scientific test using an instrument known in forensic geology as a 'finger'. I used this finger to press the light switch which then confirmed to me, to the best of my knowledge, that the light was not working milady.
I then used additional instruments called eyes to confirm the above and then allowed my brain and physical existence to bring all the evidence together milady.
I then made some notes on a napkin to accurately record all these findings.
No I did not check if there had been any previous fault reported to confirm the employer's, sorry i meant the accused's story milady.. quite honestly I couldn't be bothered milady.
I also did not check that the bulb had been accidentally smashed by a cricket bat.
I did not do this because I was satisfied that my initial test was sufficient to reach the conclusion I had been asked to reach. I was just doing my job.
I also could not do this milady because by then it was nighttime and it was dark and the lights weren't on and so I tried to use my eyes and finger to make my notes but then I didn't have a pen because it was stuck up my arse milady.
No its true that I am not a qualified electrician milady but I once changed the batteries in my portable gas spectrometer so I am an expert to the very best of recollection but I don't actually know how the thing works milady. I think you blow through it or sing it a song. One of the three.
No there is no report because the dog ate it on the way here"


This must have been when the feed went down.

Love it! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Linda7NJ]

No people are not, at least I am not. If my wife speaks softly, whispers, let alone screams at me in the early morning darkness to call the police, my immediate reaction would be to ask her, "Why? The the h*** is going on!?" LOL! This is so basic, so simple.

And seriously, hasn't everyone heard something in the middle of the night ?

I certainly have! And the first thing I've done each and every time...is say outloud...while shaking my husband ..."did you hear that?"
And if he's not awake...I wake him up...to listen with me. lol

It's usually our cat rearranging the furniture downstairs or a raccoon or something trying to go through our trash and is messing with the lids outside.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Carmelita]

bbm - Yup, right down to ...

1 Corinthians 9:26-27

I do not run like a man running aimlessly;
I do not fight like a man beating the air.
I execute each strike with intent.
I beat my body and make it my slave.
I bring it under complete submission...



I have seen that line bolded before but it doesn’t carry the weight of any conviction with me as to Oscar’s culpability in willfully murdering Reeva. I find more telling “I beat my body and make it my slave” is Oscar not a slave to his missing legs? And then “I bring it under complete submission” again he seems to be a man that cannot allow himself his humanity but must put his body under “complete submission.” That is what made him Blade Runner.

A very curious and interesting choice of scripture to ink on one’s body for perpetuity, does anyone know when he got his tattoo?

In spite of the horrific tragedy surrounding him he is a fascinating study in personality. Fascinating is not being used as a complimentary word directed at Oscar.

 

[James50]

So on the one hand, 9/10 will react this way but on the other hand, people wouldn't know fail to consider context. Sounds so conflicting.

By the way, put me in the 1/10 group because if my loved one was screaming at me to call the police for I don't know for how long (as he walked slowly remember), and I had the phone in the toilet and the door is locked from my side, you bet I will call the police.

No, you misunderstand. I mean 9/10 wouldn't scream out from inside the toilet in that situation.