Trial Discussion Thread #27 - 14.04.16, Day 24

[Panda]

No people are not, at least I am not. If my wife speaks softly, whispers, let alone screams at me in the early morning darkness to call the police, my immediate reaction would be to ask her, "Why? The the h*** is going on!?" LOL! This is so basic, so simple.

I would confirm myself that's what I have done in the past. To the extent that I got up and went with my partner to determine a source of unidentified noise.

 

[clearskies1]

According to the prosecution's evidence how far into the bathroom was OP standing when he shot? I assume their expert gave a range when he testified. Thanks.

 

[Val1]

I think I would scream back in fear. Like "what What WHAT!!!!" "What is going on!!!"

I've been on both sides to which when being told to call the police my first response was why? and when I was telling my hb to call them he responded also with why?. It's really difficult to tell police what the problem is if you don't know, to which ime they will promptly put you on hold.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Love it! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

That post was hilarious!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Panda]

Night. Yeah, this case is really amazing and addictive. LOL

I must say, there are some amazing people on this forum. Everyone's input is truly interesting. And yes, very addictive!

 

[Suthrnqt]

Whether Reeva was the one screaming or she was hiding quietly in the bathroom waiting for Oscar to deal with the fantasy intruders, or even if she was in the bathroom hiding from Oscar himself--

Why didn't she call police on her cell phone? This is driving me crazy now.

Maybe, just maybe, she didn't have her cell phone. MOO

 

[Panda]

That post was hilarious!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Had me in hysterics. Nothing like a bit of humour now and again to break things up a bit. :floorlaugh:

 

[Val1]

1 Corinthians 9:26-27

I do not run like a man running aimlessly;
I do not fight like a man beating the air.
I execute each strike with intent.
I beat my body and make it my slave.
I bring it under complete submission...



I have seen that line bolded before but it doesn’t carry the weight of any conviction with me as to Oscar’s culpability in willfully murdering Reeva. I find more telling “I beat my body and make it my slave” is Oscar not a slave to his missing legs? And then “I bring it under complete submission” again he seems to be a man that cannot allow himself his humanity but must put his body under “complete submission.” That is what made him Blade Runner.

A very curious and interesting choice of scripture to ink on one’s body for perpetuity, does anyone know when he got his tattoo?

In spite of the horrific tragedy surrounding him he is a fascinating study in personality. Fascinating is not being used as a complimentary word directed at Oscar.

To me it simply says that he wouldn't have faffed around with running aimlessly around looking for RS with the lights off and that when arming himself that night he most certainly had plans to use it and for the rest we have been witness to in court with the green bucket, he must win at all cost, especially if the rest of his tat is in line with the rest of the scripture he was quoting from, "lest by any means, after I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.".

 

[curiousjo]

OP's problem is that the shooting was preceeded by an hour long argument, followed by a woman screaming in fear for her life up until fatal gun shots(overheard by the neighbors) - then silence.... and the porch story alibi fell apart when he said that he never really went out onto the porch to get the fans..... plus the fact that he is a gun fanatic and hot head who chose to fire his gun in public settings (for fun) and threatened to break peoples legs! And his texts reveal an insecure, jealous, controlling man. No reason to look for Zebras when the truth is right in front of us...

 

[James50]

Looking at it from your angle here's a plausible scenario:

Reeva is on the toilet. She hears Oscar scream at her to phone police. Out of the blue this makes her jump and panic, perhaps causing her to drop her phone. Oscar continues to scream at the intruders. Realising this she quickly gets up, slams the door and locks it. This coincides with Oscar suddenly becoming quiet. Due to the change in circumstance and the fact she just made a loud noise Reeva strains to hear, unsure of what has now happened. Perhaps she hears the approach of a person to the bathroom and this scares her into further silence. As Oscar backs up to the wall he again screams at Reeva to phone the police and again screams at the attackers. This again startles Reeva who knocks against the magazine rack...

It is possible and I'm not dogmatic about it, though I still find it more likely that she would use her phone if she had had the opportunity. Further it is one more occurence in a number of odd occurrences, coincidences, additions and errors in Pistorius' testimony and one that was not touched upon in the courtroom. To me it seems to add up to A Series of Unlikely Events. When I have more time I'd like to discuss them, heck, it's why I just joined.

Am I right in saying that you're some kind of police investigator? I like the way you think.

Actually, I see the opposite: that the inconsistencies can easily enough be explained away -- all except why she didn't call the police, if you insist. But the problem with that issue is that Nel can't say why she didn't call either, and nor can OP offer a reason because he too simply couldn't know. Which puts it in the realms of mere speculation.

 

[aa9511]

I've attempted to put together a timeline of sorts, it might be helpful. I tried not to cram in too much info so the times would stand out. I've mostly used juror13 as a source (if this is not ok, please let me know), along with other reports from the individual court dates.

Question : Who is Mr Nhlengethwa? I've read his name in the reports but that's it....

--------------------------------​

Phone records - Calls to security on 14th Feb

Silverwood Security land line:

3:15:51am - Dr. Stipp (army training - assult rifle & pistol). Reported gunshots.
3:16:16am - Mr Nhlengethwa. No answer.
3:16:36am - Mr Nhlengethwa. Reported gunshots.

Silverwood Security cell phone:

3:21:33am - Op to Baba. OP cries.
3:22:05am - Baba to OP. OP says “everything is fine”.

Security other:

3:16am - Mr. Johnson (gun owner). Heard gunshots - backed up by security phone records.

Silverwood Security:

3:19:50am - OP to Stander

Gunshots/bangs & screams reported to security on 14th Feb

1:56am - Mrs. van der Merwe (very loud woman's voice over an hour)

3:00am (approx) - Mrs. van der Merwe (gunshots/bangs)
3:00am (shortly after)- Security guard on bike. (gunshots)
3:00am (approx) - Mrs. Burger (gunshots)
3:00am (approx) - Mr. Johnson (gunshots)
3:04am - Dr. Stipp. (gunshots)
3:04am - Mrs. Stipp (gunshots)
3:16am (before) - Mr Nhlengethwa (gunshots)

-------------------------------------------​

Dr. Stipp - hears fearful female screaming, sees lights in OP's bathroom.
Mr. Johnson - male & female yelling for help, female and male screams intermingled.
Mrs. Burger - male & female yelling for help, woman screaming with scream escalating.
Mrs. van der Merwe - loud woman's voice, screams.

-------------------------------------------​

3:12am OP reports firing his gun


3:17am (approx) - Mr. Johnson (gunshots)
3:17am - Dr. Stipp (gunshots)

-------------------------------------------​

I can make changes if needs be....

Thank you so much for this!!!

 

[Hatfield]

OP's problem is that the shooting was preceeded by an hour long argument, followed by a woman screaming in fear for her life up until fatal gun shots(overheard by the neighbors) - then silence.... and the porch story alibi fell apart when he said that he never really went out onto the porch to get the fans..... plus the fact that he is a gun fanatic and hot head who chose to fire his gun in public settings (for fun)
and threatened to break peoples legs! And his texts reveal an insecure, jealous, controlling man. No reason to look for Zebras when the truth is right in front of us...

When I saw the video of him on the gun range, he is the exact type of person that if I saw him at the gun range I go to, I would immediately leave. Ive seen others like him and unfortunately they are too common.

He has no business owning a gun and I have seen others like him. They have a gun for all the wrong reasons. Like an inexperienced child playing with a dangerous toy. He was a disaster waiting to happen. Its nothing short of a miracle he did not accidentally shoot someone on the gun range.

All basic gun safety rules are broken with his type. He broke one of the most common rules which are part of my carriers permit training

1-Never shoot at something unless you identify your target and also know what is beyond that target.

 

[molly333]

Yes I think the majority of people know OP is a liar once he finished with his testimony. It is very obvious.

But somehow there is a minority who defies all common sense and logic and conflicting evidence because some can't think of a hero as a villain or they keep holding onto the idea of "presumption of innocence", when in fact they aren't really holding onto such idea. Rather, they just think he is innocent.

We are the mighty minority
Defying all common sense
Standing up for a rarity
Like presumption of innocence.

 

[Viper]

No, you misunderstand. I mean 9/10 wouldn't scream out from inside the toilet in that situation.

BIB. I'm not being sarcastic, but I'm pretty sure you have this one backwards. JMO

 

[James50]

BIB. I'm not being sarcastic, but I'm pretty sure you have this one backwards. JMO

Lol, touchlé, okay, I should have added IF THEY'RE SMART! Although, granted that in this instance it would have paid Reeva not to be.

 

[Panda]

When I saw the video of him on the gun range, he is the exact type of person that if I saw him at the gun range I go to, I would immediately leave. Ive seen others like him and unfortunately they are too common.

He has no business owning a gun and I have seen others like him. They have a gun for all the wrong reasons. Like an inexperienced child playing with a dangerous toy. He was a disaster waiting to happen. Its nothing short of a miracle he did not accidentally shoot someone on the gun range.

All basic gun safety rules are broken with his type. He broke one of the most common rules which are part of my carriers permit training

1-Never shoot at something unless you identify your target and also know what is beyond that target.

Too right. I'll add that it's people like him who give target/sports shooters a bad name.

 

[Mr Ron]

Am I right in saying that you're some kind of police investigator? I like the way you think.

Actually, I see the opposite: that the inconsistencies can easily enough be explained away -- all except why she didn't call the police, if you insist. But the problem with that issue is that Nel can't say why she didn't call either, and nor can OP offer a reason because he too simply couldn't know. Which puts it in the realms of mere speculation.

not even close. I do have a knack of being able to place myself in other peoples shoes though.

I suppose I'm trying to approach this case as though I'm a member of a jury, the prosecutor, the defence council and each of the protagonists. At the moment I'm pretty confident that Oscar is tailoring his version to some degree, but I am not sure how much or why. I'm certainly not of the view that the prosecution has proven he intended to kill Reeva (specifically) beyond reasonable doubt (though it remains very much a possibility).

A major reason why I'm not at present willing to take his story at face value is his refusal to admit to the restaurant firearms charge, when it would appear to require a change in physical laws in order for his version to be correct. It seems he does have a deep seated need to remove as much blame as possible from himself and that this need is more pressing to him than the establishment of the Truth.

With regards to his testimony of the night in question, he seems to cast himself as a tragic hero - a victim of the whims of perceived circumstance - who made flawed but at root noble decisions in order to protect his loved one. For me this grates with the character of a man that won't own up to his obvious past mistakes.

At the moment though, I'm only knowledgeable about the case from the beginning of his testimony so I (and IMO so should everyone else) choose to reserve judgement.

 

[aa9511]

Do you guys remember Oscar at the Olympics - not during his own, was it 400m run, but in the 4x400 relay race...where something happened and the S. Africa team ended up being disqualified?

I just remember the look on his face - I could tell he was very angry. But he was trying not to show it. I remember it being like a very restrained anger. And he had a very weird look on his face.

Anyway....also, you all will remember that much of the focus during that Olympics was on him b/c it was a good story and of course NBC wanted to bring in viewers with a good story. But I remember the expression on his face was always like he was uncomfortable with all of the attention. Like for example, other star athletes would smile normally at the camera, then go back to being focused. Or like Usain Bolt who was/is very comfortable with the spotlight. But Oscar's smile was very fake-looking and strained. As I said, he looked very uncomfortable in the spotlight.

I dunno, maybe I am just reading too much into it, but I do remember thinking those things at that time. Not now, but even then.

I think Oscar wanted and craved the attention, but he also had many struggles within. Such as anger. Example when they were disqualified - he was trying too hard to hold in his anger. I think he always tried to be someone he wasn't in front of others. B/c maybe he was almost too scared to show them the real him. The one with struggles inside - struggle with anger, struggle with personality, etc..

One thing I have always wondered is - what do his teammates say about him?

 

[Hatfield]

OT

Just a couple main gun safety tips for others.

One of the most common gun safety rules that I have seen broken on the gun range is this one:

-Always Keep The Muzzle Pointed In A Safe Direction ALWAYS !!!

It amazes me at times how people sometimes dont follow this rule. My own father was showing me a new firearm once and even though it was unloaded he kept waving it around and I kept ducking. He never grasped rule #1.


Here is another rule that I follow and you dont always see this one listed but I feel it is important and if you follow this rule and the above rule, you most likely will never have a bad accident.

-Treat every gun as if it is loaded, even if you know (think) it is unloaded.

This rule is critical because there are many people who have been killed by an "unloaded" weapon. The old "I thought it was unloaded" excuse.
If you follow this rule and the above one, then it will help you to never have a deadly accident with a firearm.

Below are the official main rules of gun safety:

http://www.nssf.org/safety/basics/index.cfm?

 

[aa9511]

We are the mighty minority
Defying all common sense
Standing up for a rarity
Like presumption of innocence.

I think it's more the want to stand up for, root for, the underdog.

Some people want to help the person everyone is "against."