Trial Discussion Thread #29

[Cherwell]

Hard to believe an intruder would look at that house with all the windows and decide to get the ladder, climb up to see if that particular tiny window was unlocked, then open it and while balancing on the ladder, wiggle through it.

I too think it's ridiculous that an intruder would pick this one particular window to gain access to the house when the downstairs is filled with glass windows that don't have burglar bars. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Or nip up the helpfully-provided ladder to the balcony and in through the open doors ......

 

[shane13]

Thank you, but my question was to try to understand the quoted poster's example on what was and was not premeditation.

This is not my theory of what happened (at least not yet), because I have been unable to follow the trial at all closely, so I just don't know. The only thing I am fairly certain of is that OP was reckless and had no understanding whatsoever of gun safety, or when you can and cannot use deadly force. And who leaves a semi automatic cocked like that? It takes a spit second to make it safe.

Reading posts tonight about the cricket bat, and OP breaking the door, either before or after he did shoot into the toilet, caused me to wonder why the toilet door was locked in the first place. I assume this has already been discussed, though I am far from catching up on this complex case.

BBM
No. OP had passed a written exam whose Qs precisely went over when he is allowed to shoot in SD, and when he is not.

He answered correctly on those Qs.

 

[wb180]

Another contradiction in OP own statement. On one hand, he said before he knew it he was firing at the door (ie not aware of shooting). On the other hand, he was aware to shoot so that the bullets do not bounce back and hit him in an enclosed space (ie he was aware of shooting). So, which is it OP??? Can't believe people can't see all his holes.

 

[PPKik]

BBM
No. OP had passed a written exam whose Qs precisely went over when he is allowed to shoot in SD, and when he is not.

He answered correctly on those Qs.

No disagreement with you at all about his passing an exam. I'd like to know what kind of training he actually had, because, simply, his actions show me that he was irresponsible and reckless to the nth degree.

Time and time again, OP has shown no understanding of the consequences of his impulsive and bizarre gun behavior. That's not even in question. It's the premeditation I'm far from sure about.

 

[shane13]

No disagreement with you at all about his passing an exam. I'd like to know what kind of training he actually had, because, simply, his actions show me that he was irresponsible and reckless to the nth degree.

Time and time again, OP has shown no understanding of the consequences of his impulsive and bizarre gun behavior. That's not even in question. It's the premeditation I'm far from sure about.

OP's history includes numerous incidents and accidents that have nothing to do with guns.

 

[Murphys_Law]

During the summer of 2013, Nel provided a list of 107 witnesses that could be potentially called to give testimony on the stand.

My assumptions with respect to ear witnesses and affidavits:

1. For each of the Silver Woods estate witnesses appearing on the list, a sworn affidavit had been taken by the police shortly after the event .
2. The affidavits were made available to both the prosecution and defence teams during the discovery phase or before.
3. All of the primary professional reports directly related to the event (post mortem, ballistic, blood stain analysis, Mamelodi and the medical report re physical and mental condition of the accused, and other investigative reports) were made available to both teams during the discovery phase.

Question:
Would all of the affidavits and professional reports be part of the courts docket/evidentiary materials to draw upon, without being formally introduced during the clinical phase of the trial?

 

[Lochlynsmom]

Hard to believe an intruder would look at that house with all the windows and decide to get the ladder, climb up to see if that particular tiny window was unlocked, then open it and while balancing on the ladder, wiggle through it.

Especially with patio lights on and a car in the driveway...

 

[zoran]

Another contradiction in OP own statement. On one hand, he said before he knew it he was firing at the door (ie not aware of shooting). On the other hand, he was aware to shoot so that the bullets do not bounce back and hit him in an enclosed space (ie he was aware of shooting). So, which is it OP??? Can't believe people can't see all his holes.

As long as Milady sees it...

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Another contradiction in OP own statement. On one hand, he said before he knew it he was firing at the door (ie not aware of shooting). On the other hand, he was aware to shoot so that the bullets do not bounce back and hit him in an enclosed space (ie he was aware of shooting). So, which is it OP??? Can't believe people can't see all his holes.

Totally agree and just said the same thing on the previous page following on from Vipers earlier post.
IMO it shows he was thinking clearly and was not in a blind panic in fear of his life . Have said this before if I were in that position I would have peppered the whole of that door high and low until I had emptied the magazine .
The grouping of those shots just do not look like random panic stricken shots with the gun held with just one hand.
Although I thought The states Ballistics guy to be a good witness I do wish he had stressed this point a bit more unless of course I have missed something there.

 

[shane13]

"Not in my World', Dixon emphatically said.

Does anyone recall what Q from Nel prompted this response from Dixon?
TIA

 

[BlueShoe]

I've often thought that if Reeva was alive in the toilet whilst OP was breaking down the door, she had an opportunity to try and attract outside attention.

Wooden magazine rack smashing the glass toilet window would be quite a logical action.

As would screaming for your life.

 

[DebinGA]

lol, Apollo. I'm not sure about the window. I do know that Nel said the toilet is 1.4 x 1.4 m.

The toilet window is the lone window to the left in the red rectangle. The open bathroom window is the one furthest to the left of the other three windows. (Edit: I mean the left hand window of the three side-by-side windows.)

So my guess would be about 40-50 cm wide.

OP claims the sound of the bathroom window "sliding open" sent him into combat mode. Using that helpful pic of the window, if it's like similar ones here, only the two outer window sections slide, and only enough to cover the middle stationary section. He added later that he heard the window "hitting the frame" from the bedroom. That's provably false, since the window would be sliding inward, away from the frame when being opened.

 

[Viper]

Wow. Look at that clenched jaw. Either he's angry/frustrated/stressed ...or he's about to yawn or throw up and he's trying to suppress it.

OP just looks very angry to me. He does not have TMJ or any medical condition related to his jaw, he is just angry; because of the situation he is in, where he is, what he is going through, and all of the people and cameras that see him there. And that image captures the true OP, not the 10 year old boy that he wants the Court to see. That will be his facial expression for the first few days or weeks in prison too. JMO

 

[DebinGA]

Especially with patio lights on and a car in the driveway...

And I think Dr. Stipp said when he tried to find the source of the screams, before deciding it was OP's house, his eyes first landed on the house next to OP which had many lights on.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

Putting this out there to counter the <modsnip> scenario posted yesterday.

I am home alone with my front door unlock. Just getting out of the shower and wrapping myself in a towel(vulnerable) I hear a closet door slam in the other bedroom. I immediately get my loaded and ready to fire gun and head out the bathroom door. Instead of grabbing my robe and heading downstairs I continue down a short hall in my towel(vulnerable) Peering into the bedroom I hear a noise in the closet and fire 4 times into the door.

After opening the closet door I find my dying boyfriend, instead of calling for help immediately I call a neighbour and say something happened get over here and bring you lawyer daughter! Then I call an emergency number but don't request an ambulance. Another neighbour calls and asks what going on and I respond " everything is fine"

Police show up and I refuse to make a statement, the police have overheard I believed it was an intruder and start to investigate. They come across 5 neighbours that in and around 20 mins before the shots heard a terrified man screaming, one even heard arguing before.

Just working on my first coffee so apologies for any mistakes!

 

[Really?]

Or nip up the helpfully-provided ladder to the balcony and in through the open doors ......

I thought i read somewhere that the ladders outside would not have even reached the window.

I could be mistaken though

 

[DebinGA]

Still mad at Nel that he didn't get back up after Roux led Oscar through the valentine's card section and ask where Oscar's card for Reeva was, i was sitting there waiting for him to do it, was gutted when he said he had nothing further, missed a trick.

Can't imagine Roux wouldn't have had OP read his card to Reeva if there was one. IIRC Nel also didn't point out OP's testimony re opening Reeva's Valentine's present on her birthday showed he didn't know when her birthday was. Nel is characterized as weaving all the evidence threads, even those left dangling, into a beautiful tapestry in his summation/closing.

 

[BlueShoe]

It's a good possibility. Roger Dixon testified that the more you open the toilet room door, the brighter that window appears from the outside. A crack in the door surely would have produced a dim light from outside. I believe that is what she described.

Wow! Thanks for your thumbnail. Not only does it show the window light, but unless that is a giant standing at the window, it shows how easily a person might be seen walking by. If on his stumps, Oscar would probably be a bit shorter, but not that much (I believe he would only be shorter by the length of one of our poster's hands).

 

[BlueShoe]

More from that website that stated Oscar overate so as to vomit.

Herschelle Gibbs [Cricketer] to Testify at Oscar Trial

"...PRETORIA – Former South African cricketer Herschelle Gibbs will be called upon as a surprise last-minute addition to the witness list, sources within the Oscar Pistorius defence team revealed..."

"Law experts believe that Advocate Barry Roux will attempt to prove that Oscar was not a top order batsman, and therefore bashed down the bathroom door purely by accident.

The former Protea opener is confident that he will be a competent witness. “I’m very familiar with the evidence,” he explained. “My signature can be seen on the bat used by Oscar to bash down the door.”

“In my current capacity as a cricket commentator for SABC Sport, I describe the wielding of bats all day long,” insisted Gibbs. “As such, I should be able to describe Oscar’s stroke making beautifully...”

http://banananewsline.com/category/sport/

If not clear:

With the recent slew of "experts" it is hard to tell what the DT will bring out next. :floorlaugh:

Satire or reality. Who knows for sure?

 

[DebinGA]

Have you read this case? The story is quite similar, other than the guy only shot once and immediately rushed his wife to hospital. I'm pretty sure this is what OP expects to get.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Man-who-shot-wife-in-error-can-sympathise-with-Oscar-20140407

I bet OP really, really, really wishes he'd gotten Reeva a Valentine's present ...or even just a generic "roses are red, violets are blue" card.