Trial Discussion Thread #29

[shane13]

Not caught up with all the posts yet, but how is Johan Stander going to be allowed to testify when he was sitting in court during testimony for at least one day?

Shhhhh.

 

[Freya1977]

Here is what I believe created the first set of bangs at 3:00:

1) Reeva makes it to the WC and slams the door, quickly locking it.
2) Oscar was immediately behind her and hits the door twice with the bat. He was obviously trying to scare her with the forceful blows to the door and the loud noise that it created inside the WC.
3) Oscar then hits the bathtub plate expressing pure anger and frustration.

I believe all of that happened in very quick succession.

That the two argued more, that Reeva cried and screamed for someone to help, and that it went on for 17 minutes without Reeva using her phone does not make sense to me, unless she did not have her phone. Either her phone's battery was dead or OP had her phone. I can imagine Reeva trying to calm OP and defuse his anger by talking to him through the door. But when she started screaming for help that indicates to me that she had given up on getting out of there without someone coming to her aid.

That plate on the bathtub is SO telling IMO.

He had to have been in a rage to smash that in. I'm surprised Nell didn't raise that damage on cross. Hopefully he ties it into his closing!

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[Freya1977]

Not caught up with all the posts yet, but how is Johan Stander going to be allowed to testify when he was sitting in court during testimony for at least one day?

I thought that as soon as it was reported he was there. Perhaps the roots were incorrect and he wasn't actually there?

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[soozieqtips]

Here is what I believe created the first set of bangs at 3:00:

1) Reeva makes it to the WC and slams the door, quickly locking it.
2) Oscar was immediately behind her and hits the door twice with the bat. He was obviously trying to scare her with the forceful blows to the door and the loud noise that it created inside the WC.
3) Oscar then hits the bathtub plate expressing pure anger and frustration.

I believe all of that happened in very quick succession.

That the two argued more, that Reeva cried and screamed for someone to help, and that it went on for 17 minutes without Reeva using her phone does not make sense to me, unless she did not have her phone. Either her phone's battery was dead or OP had her phone. I can imagine Reeva trying to calm OP and defuse his anger by talking to him through the door. But when she started screaming for help that indicates to me that she had given up on getting out of there without someone coming to her aid.

That sounds more credible that OP's version (versions). The phone thing has bugged me though. OP said she had it in the toilet with her. I don't know why he offered that information if it was true, because the question of why she had it in there at 3am would have come up.

If she did have it, she didn't use it because either she didn't have a signal, or she was too freaked out by OP going nuts outside the door and couldn't calm herself enough to dial. But maybe it was never in the toilet with her, and she dropped it in a panic when she was trying to get to safety in the toilet, with OP right behind her. Was Reeva's blood on her phone, do we know? If she was holding it when she got shot, wouldn't that have come up already?

Oh, Martin Hood, Sky guy, said he was really surprised that Roux hadn't prepared Dixon more thoroughly. He said Nel is known to be meticulous about detail and goes through everything with his witnesses at least 4 times so there's no chance of them being under prepared. But Roux didn't seem to have prepared Dixon at all.

 

[shane13]

That plate on the bathtub is SO telling IMO.

He had to have been in a rage to smash that in. I'm surprised Nell didn't raise that damage on cross. Hopefully he ties it into his closing!

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Freya--have a handy photo of that? (Upside down of course.)

 

[Cherwell]

I have always thought the cricket bat came first as there was so much screaming according to ear witnesses. Whilst I am sure she would scream when shot the first/second time there would have been very little time for there to be continued screaming. I think he hit the door to frighten her and when she wouldn't stop screaming he collected his gun and fired. I appreciate there has been a comment from one of the expert witnesses about the shot coming before the door was split but what if the split was minimal until the shot had been fired. That panel would then break and OP would be able, after the murder, to prise the door panels apart.

Those have been my thoughts exactly.

 

[Greater Than]

One of the first things that struck me when OP took to the stand he said "I am taking responsibility, I have put my life on hold for the last year to come here and defend myself"

Narcissist much, Mr. Pistorius?

LOL yeah, put his life on hold. If this happened in the United State he would've been sitting in a jail cell the whole time waiting for his trial.

 

[Viper]

Since OP's newest version has Reeva wide awake and speaking to him when he got up at 3:00, why is it important for the DT that she didn't eat something around 1:00 when he was still asleep?

Because some witness(s) heard arguing an hour or so before Reeva was murdered. If Reeva ate at 1:00 then she was likely up and involved in that argument. If on the other hand, as OP tells the fairy tale, Reeva did not wake until 3:00ish then OP and Reeva could not have been the two people arguing at 2:00, it must have been two other neighbors arguing.

All times are approximate, I can't keep up with all of the exact times down to the minute anymore!

 

[Freya1977]

Freya--have a handy photo of that? (Upside down of course.)

Here you go.....sorry it's not upside down!


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[Cherwell]

Key Word: SPECULATE

Who asks an expert witness to speculate?

ans: Someone who doesn't have evidence.

Expert witnesses are frequently asked to speculate. They are asked if such-and-such is "possible". That is speculation.

 

[kittychi]

I think he was saying exactly what he said. And when asked by his own attorney if he fired consciously, he said no.

That means he fired involuntarily.

BBM: I don't understand your thinking here. For me it would work if he was holding the gun and there was an earthquake and it went off while in his hand.

The "involuntarily" word works if what Oscar says is true. But he still must accept responsibility for his actions.

 

[TorisMom003]

Expert witnesses are frequently asked to speculate. They are asked if such-and-such is "possible". That is speculation.

Heck, the "expert" witness that turned out not to be an expert was speculating left and right all during his testimony. Why would the defense need to do that since they have the "true" version straight from the horse's mouth? Now the State on the other hand only had two documents to go by before OP took the stand, as far as what "version" OP would use.

MOO

 

[delilah]

That sounds more credible that OP's version (versions). The phone thing has bugged me though. OP said she had it in the toilet with her. I don't know why he offered that information if it was true, because the question of why she had it in there at 3am would have come up.

If she did have it, she didn't use it because either she didn't have a signal, or she was too freaked out by OP going nuts outside the door and couldn't calm herself enough to dial. But maybe it was never in the toilet with her, and she dropped it in a panic when she was trying to get to safety in the toilet, with OP right behind her. Was Reeva's blood on her phone, do we know? If she was holding it when she got shot, wouldn't that have come up already?

Snipped

I don't understand the phone thing either. Why take yr mobile with you to the loo at 3am? It does OP no good to say she did - the story about her possibly using it to light the way only got him into more trouble with Nel. But I was surprised Nel didn't ask him why she would have taken the phone with her (unless he did and I missed it?)

 

[Onlyamum]

Here you go.....sorry it's not upside down!


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Wonder why on earth Nel hasn't touched on this metal plate?

 

[Onlyamum]

Snipped

I don't understand the phone thing either. Why take yr mobile with you to the loo at 3am? It does OP no good to say she did - the story about her possibly using it to light the way only got him into more trouble with Nel. But I was surprised Nel didn't ask him why she would have taken the phone with her (unless he did and I missed it?)

Nel did ask OP but he said maybe to light up the passage, but I think she was intending to call the police as OP said at one point to Reeva 'why are you calling the police' IIRC, sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong

 

[TorisMom003]

Wonder why on earth Nel hasn't touched on this metal plate?

Because if Nel went over every single thing that shows OP's version is simply not true, then OP would still be on the stand come August. Nel had to pick his battles during that cross of OP. He still has other "experts" (or he should anyway) that he can question about some of these things. Those "experts" should know what OP's version is unless of course like Dixon, OP and his defense refuse to tell all. IE, the balcony light being on, etc.

MOO

 

[delilah]

BBM: I don't understand your thinking here. For me it would work if he was holding the gun and there was an earthquake and it went off while in his hand.

The "involuntarily" word works if what Oscar says is true. But he still must accept responsibility for his actions.

It would sound slightly less like nonsense if he'd only fired 'involuntarily' once, but he didn't. He fired 'involuntarily' four times.

 

[TorisMom003]

The phone case in the bathroom, I was told that it was from OP's phone and not Reeva's. Now from my experience a phone case like that, covers front and back, will not come off from a slight touch but will need to be dropped rather hard, almost like thrown. Wonder why OP's phone case came off like it did.

MOO

 

[Freya1977]

Snipped

I don't understand the phone thing either. Why take yr mobile with you to the loo at 3am? It does OP no good to say she did - the story about her possibly using it to light the way only got him into more trouble with Nel. But I was surprised Nel didn't ask him why she would have taken the phone with her (unless he did and I missed it?)

I honestly don't think it's unusual. And I'm even doubting if she DID have the phone. But if she did - I use mine to avoid turning on bright lights in the night. Also, she was very much into social media and had tweeted earlier,so could have just wanted to look at Twitter or Facebook.

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[Gbtaketwo]

Not caught up with all the posts yet, but how is Johan Stander going to be allowed to testify when he was sitting in court during testimony for at least one day?

I was wondering about this too.
But I guess bearing in mind it is televised he could have been watching at home .
I will be interested in what The Standers have to say but would struggle to give their testimony too much weight because they are not really independent .