Trial Discussion Thread #29

[soozieqtips]

We don't know how long RS may have been in the toilet before she 'slammed' the toilet door. Defence may argue she had time to pee then shut the door when OP started screaming. Hence OP building in all the faffing with the fans and the jeans, to give her time. Still hogwash though, IMO.

Nel said she must have slammed and locked it at the same time if OP only heard it slamming. Which means she was running like hell away from him and locked the door as soon as she got to the toilet, and I say that from my 'guilty as sin' point of view. The only one terrified and in fear of their life was Reeva. What a horrible way to die, and now OP's doing everything he can to worm his way out of a murder charge. I wonder if he's ever told a member of his family the truth about what happened that night. He's very close to his sister, so he could have confessed to her, safe in the knowledge she would never expose him - because no one has ever held him to account before.

 

[DebinGA]

But didn't he phone stander AFTER he'd got her out of the toilet cubicle?

OP called Stander before anyone else. At some point Stander, Clarice, and iirc Baba and Dr. Stipp were gathered at the bottom of the stairs as OP, dramatically poised at the top holding Reeva, began his now-public descent.

 

[Viper]

I lost the plot during OPs testimony ref the magazine rack. Why was he so insistent about it having moved between the time he pulled RS out of the toilet and the police photos being taken? Why did it matter, esp as Dixon's evidence subsequently contradicted OP's on that point?

Me too! A quick guess is that it may be related to his ballistics expert that has yet to testify? Or the "wood sounds" need to be coming from some other location within the WC nearer to the door? Hmm... IDK. :smile:

 

[fox1lady]

That's a very interesting point. People are blaming Dixon, but I put all the blame on Roux who in essence vouched for his credentials and findings by putting him up there.

That brings me on to a question I have meant to ask. Who is it that decides on who goes onto the stand and when? I have read previously that Pistorius had hired a "Dream Team" similar to that of OJ Simpson's to represent him, Roux and Oldwage being two of them. Is it Pistorius that decides on the expert witnesses or did Roux have a say on who he chose?

 

[mister happy]

Wow, I watched a few youtubes about the South African prisons. Rough stuff. The only facility that seems "decent" is the Kirkwood Correctional Centre. If Pistorius goes to prison, I wonder which one he'll end up in. Will he be in protective custody (if there is such a thing in South Africa)?

 

[fox1lady]

BBM I think this scenario makes the most sense...furious that she threatened to call the police. His image...that was and is all that is important
to him.

Perhaps she even pretended she was really calling them and speaking to someone although we know that she hadn't done. She probably wanted him to back down but unfortunately it went the other way.

 

[TorisMom003]

I, personally, don't believe that Reeva had her phone with her in the toilet at all. I believe that is just another one of OP's lies.

MOO

 

[molly333]

To be fair Roux asked witnesses and the judge to speculate that Oscar screams like a woman...

That's not speculation. That's either fact or fiction.

Roux would be expected to prove it.

But, Oscar got into some high ranges on the stand.

 

[TorisMom003]

Wow, I watched a few youtubes about the South African prisons. Rough stuff. The only facility that seems "decent" is the Kirkwood Correctional Centre. If Pistorius goes to prison, I wonder which one he'll end up in. Will he be in protective custody (if there is such a thing in South Africa)?

I find it hard to have sympathy for OP as to what he might have to face in a South African prison. No one, but himself, has put him in the position to the possibility of going to prison. If OP wanted to stay out of prison, he should have obeyed the laws. Killing someone, Reeva, deserves punishment. That is something that even children know.

MOO

 

[Ncl1968]

Excellent post Hope. I don't think OP had the time or presence of mind to think how he was going to cover things up. Especially in the frame of mind he was in at the time, and the eye witness accounts of his emotional state.
I believe that it was himself he was worried about when he ventured into the bathroom and Reeva would have been an afterthought, but he can't say that in court can he? Something else struck me from the very beginning and I have never mentioned it before because it is difficult to put into words the feeling I have about it. It was the witness account of how OP was pleading with god to let Reeva live, and trying to make a bargain with god by promising to be a good person etc. (I can't remember exactly what he said), if he would let Reeva live.
This strikes me as real. I don't know if anyone else on here has tried to bargain with god in times of great worry or grief. I have, more than once, and to me, that heart rending plea coming from a person's mouth is real. I know many will say that he was just pleading to be saved from jail, but it strikes me as being genuine.

I agree he regrets that night happened but no remorse for reeva just his prediciment

 

[soozieqtips]

That's not speculation. That's either fact or fiction.

Roux would be expected to prove it.

But, Oscar got into some high ranges on the stand.

And Roux hasn't proved it. He did promise he would produce evidence that OP screamed like a woman... but he never did.

 

[delilah]

According to OP, yes.

ETA: But the problem with that is, how long it took him before he actually got Reeva downstairs. The phone call to Stander was at 3:19. Netcare at 3:20. OP should have immediately had Reeva in his arms and going down the stairs as soon as the call with Netcare ended. He claims he went downstairs, unlocked the front door, went back upstairs and picked up Reeva. Stander arrived approx. 5 mins after his phone call from OP. So what was OP doing during those 5 mins to be just coming down the stairs with Reeva when Stander showed up?

I think you missed the context of my comment. My point was purely in relation to the question of why OP made such a fuss about the position of the magazine rack, and the suggestion it was to emphasise the difficulty he was having getting RS out if the toilet. As he called Stander after he'd got her out, that doesn't really make sense.

 

[TorisMom003]

And Roux hasn't proved it. He did promise he would produce evidence that OP screamed like a woman... but he never did.

Although to be fair, he might still have that sound expert (the one that did the remix of the gun shot sounds and door bang sounds) come to the stand.

 

[TorisMom003]

I think you missed the context of my comment. My point was purely in relation to the question of why OP made such a fuss about the position of the magazine rack, and the suggestion it was to emphasise the difficulty he was having getting RS out if the toilet. As he called Stander after he'd got her out, that doesn't really make sense.

Sorry, yes I did miss that. You are correct, his story doesn't make sense.

 

[TorisMom003]

That's not speculation. That's either fact or fiction.

Roux would be expected to prove it.

But, Oscar got into some high ranges on the stand.

BBM

But he still sounded like a male. OP at no time sounded like a woman.

MOO

 

[crasshopper]

BIB. I don't think they can. The window sliding open is what set OP in to commando mode. If OP and Reeva had just spoken in bed, then Reeva had to have opened the window when she entered the bathroom. So at that exact moment the clock starts to countdown - OP arms himself and slowly approaches the intruder and arrives in the bathroom and fired four shots; trouble is that in that same short time Reeva would have to move from the bathroom window that she had just opened, go in to the WC, empty her bladder, finish up, pull up her shorts, slam the door and lock the door. There just is not enough time for OPs story to be true.

Odd that OP doesn't remember the toilet flushing Pathologist-> Reeva's bladder was empty and according to police the bowl had no urine, so according to OP's evidence and his stealth hearing, Reeva wasn't in the loo to urinate.

 

[Viper]

That brings me on to a question I have meant to ask. Who is it that decides on who goes onto the stand and when? I have read previously that Pistorius had hired a "Dream Team" similar to that of OJ Simpson's to represent him, Roux and Oldwage being two of them. Is it Pistorius that decides on the expert witnesses or did Roux have a say on who he chose?

Definitely the attorneys.

 

[weeeva]

right at the beginning OP said he was besotted by Reeva and he was more into her than she was into him. If he was infatuated with her and really who could blame him, he would have completely lost it when she decided that night that it was over for her. He loved her alright , way too much but just acted cool about it. The rest is history

My bold.
I tend to agree with you that he would be the type who would act cool with a woman he had strong feelings for. Probably a safety mechanism to hide his insecurities. I had one like that in my young days. It took me a while to suss it out.

 

[crasshopper]

I bet OP really, really, really wishes he'd gotten Reeva a Valentine's present ...or even just a generic "roses are red, violets are blue" card.

I'm surprised nobody thought to knock one up for him quickly. [/cynic]

...well the police would have hidden or moved that!

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Snipped

I don't understand the phone thing either. Why take yr mobile with you to the loo at 3am? It does OP no good to say she did - the story about her possibly using it to light the way only got him into more trouble with Nel. But I was surprised Nel didn't ask him why she would have taken the phone with her (unless he did and I missed it?)

My guess is it was in fact in the bathroom floor and she had dropped it while fleeing there. But op could not explain it being in the bathroom with a valid argument ( one of the phones had blood on it and it could be Reeva's ) so he possib. lied that it was in the toilet which Reeva took to light the way.

Maybe e Reeva took her phone with on her way to bathroom saying she was gonna call the police and and op chased her to the bathroom and somehow made her drop the phone before she could get in the toilet.