Trial Discussion Thread #29

[Plumeria5]

Here you go.....sorry it's not upside down!


Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

I'm sure OP had a "reasonable" explanation for the damage. What was his response Milady?

 

[lisasalinger]

Another part of Oscar's story that doesn't ring true to me is him struggling to pick her up. On his version, he had his legs on. If you look at the blood pools in the toilet room and in the bathroom, they are really not very disturbed.

If he was shuffling around in that toilet room as he described, with her full weight on top of him, and his legs hitting the wall (his explanation for the blood mark to the right of the rack) there's no way that spatter would have remained the way we saw it.

Therefore, I don't think he needed Stander to help him move her at all. He called Stander for another reason.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Tightly clenched jaw, narrowed stare...


Anger. Intense anger. A killing intense anger.

Here is what I believe created the first set of bangs at 3:00:

1) Reeva makes it to the WC and slams the door, quickly locking it.
2) Oscar was immediately behind her and hits the door twice with the bat. He was obviously trying to scare her with the forceful blows to the door and the loud noise that it created inside the WC.
3) Oscar then hits the bathtub plate expressing pure anger and frustration.

I believe all of that happened in very quick succession.

That the two argued more, that Reeva cried and screamed for someone to help, and that it went on for 17 minutes without Reeva using her phone does not make sense to me, unless she did not have her phone. Either her phone's battery was dead or OP had her phone. I can imagine Reeva trying to calm OP and defuse his anger by talking to him through the door. But when she started screaming for help that indicates to me that she had given up on getting out of there without someone coming to her aid.

Good post Viper!

BIB - that seems to be what the evidence tells us.
The phone was found in 2 pieces ...front separated from the back under the towels in the main bath area. The back of the phone is badly scratched, and there appears to be a bit of damage to the bumper guard attached to the front. OP claims to have tried to use it to call emerg but says it was pass-code protected. Also, iirc OP claims it was in the toilette with Reeva ... The only inference I can take from that is that he is implying more police tampering.

see attachment

 

[Plumeria5]

Wow, I watched a few youtubes about the South African prisons. Rough stuff. The only facility that seems "decent" is the Kirkwood Correctional Centre. If Pistorius goes to prison, I wonder which one he'll end up in. Will he be in protective custody (if there is such a thing in South Africa)?

If he didn't scream like a woman before... I have a feeling after a few weeks in the prison he will be. :blushing:

 

[crasshopper]

ITA. In addition most of the fights and arguments he got into with people were about women. Odd that OP reportedly would threaten to " break their legs." trying to find a link...

 

[delilah]

Although to be fair, he might still have that sound expert (the one that did the remix of the gun shot sounds and door bang sounds) come to the stand.

Ah, that reminds me of the monty pythonesque moment of this week:

Nel: are you a sound expert?
Dixon: I hope my evidence is sound, milady.

LOL

 

[TorisMom003]

ITA. In addition most of the fights and arguments he got into with people were about women. Odd that OP reportedly would threaten to " break their legs." trying to find a link...

Here ya go.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/pistorius-had-a-bad-temper/

 

[delilah]

If he didn't scream like a woman before... I have a feeling after a few weeks in the prison he will be. :blushing:

That's a pretty distasteful comment, really.

 

[crasshopper]

Still mad at Nel that he didn't get back up after Roux led Oscar through the valentine's card section and ask where Oscar's card for Reeva was, i was sitting there waiting for him to do it, was gutted when he said he had nothing further, missed a trick.

Reeva was a little early, OP had until the following day's dinnertime to come up with something. Many guys are last minute.

Not certain it would help but it would have been a nice courtroom moment had OP confabulated a response

 

[crasshopper]

Here ya go.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/pistorius-had-a-bad-temper/

THANKS!! Boy that was fast

 

[delilah]

My guess is it was in fact in the bathroom floor and she had dropped it while fleeing there. But op could not explain it being in the bathroom with a valid argument ( one of the phones had blood on it and it could be Reeva's ) so he possib. lied that it was in the toilet which Reeva took to light the way.

Meybe Reeva took her phone with on her way to bathroom saying she was gonna call the police and and op chased her to the bathroom and somehow made her drop the phone before she could get in the toilet.

But OP claimed he tried to use RS' phone to make a call but couldn't because it was locked. So he doesn't need a story to explain any blood on it.

I'm sure she took it with her to make a distress call, as you suggest.

 

[TorisMom003]

That's a pretty distasteful comment, really.

No more distasteful than getting on the stand, under oath, and lying about the last minutes of the woman OP killed. Claiming that Reeva never screamed, the neighbors are lying, the police are lying and framing him, the State is lying, the other witnesses are lying, etc. After a while one (especially me) realizes that whatever OP gets in punishment for his crime is deserved. Even if that means that his time in prison is not "pleasant". OP could have avoided prison, he just simply needed to follow the laws everyone else has to and not kill Reeva.

MOO

 

[Nausicaa]

LOL yeah, put his life on hold. If this happened in the United State he would've been sitting in a jail cell the whole time waiting for his trial.

Not just the States. Giving this "suspect" bail was open defiance of the norms of civilization and if he hadn't been South Africa's most successful export it wouldn't have happened.

 

[TorisMom003]

THANKS!! Boy that was fast

I remembered Batchelors name, easy to find a link that way!

 

[Viper]

Good post Viper!

BIB - that seems to be what the evidence tells us.
The phone was found in 2 pieces ...front separated from the back under the towels in the main bath area. The back of the phone is badly scratched, and there appears to be a bit of damage to the bumper guard attached to the front. OP claims to have tried to use it to call emerg but says it was pass-code protected. Also, iirc OP claims it was in the toilette with Reeva ... The only inference I can take from that is that he is implying more police tampering.

see attachment

BIB. That makes me ask: If OP says it was in the WC with Reeva, what could he be trying to infer that would be to his advantage? The first thing that comes to my mind is: OP wants the Court to believe that Reeva had a lifeline with her, something she could use to call for help if she really was trapped by him for 17 minutes. So it is impossible to believe that she was ever trapped there.

Mr. Nel gave OP that point, that Reeva had her phone. But I can't send him an email to ask him why he did that. I can only assume that he could not reasonably push the issue or he did not feel that it was necessary to do so.

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm sure OP had a "reasonable" explanation for the damage. What was his response Milady?

None was offered. OP was not questioned about the damage to the metal plate on the tub.

 

[crasshopper]

Therefore, I don't think he needed Stander to help him move her at all. He called Stander for another reason.

Well, although I agree with you and she may not have yet been "dead," dead bodies are heavier than expected.

IIRC, OP's first words to Stipp were that he thought she was an intruder. Many killers of significant others want to get their version of events out there from the beginning, hoping it sticks, imo.

 

[DebinGA]

ITA. In addition most of the fights and arguments he got into with people were about women. Odd that OP reportedly would threaten to " break their legs." trying to find a link...

And with women - ST, various ST female family members, Reeva, former gf and her friend that he screamed and slammed door on after pushing them out of his house, 2 women he literally ran into (at music concert) and cursed at while drunk ...

 

[delilah]

BIB. I don't think they can. The window sliding open is what set OP in to commando mode. If OP and Reeva had just spoken in bed, then Reeva had to have opened the window when she entered the bathroom. So at that exact moment the clock starts to countdown - OP arms himself and slowly approaches the intruder and arrives in the bathroom and fired four shots; trouble is that in that same short time Reeva would have to move from the bathroom window that she had just opened, go in to the WC, empty her bladder, finish up, pull up her shorts, slam the door and lock the door. There just is not enough time for OPs story to be true.

Yes, fair point. Although OP hasn't really given us a time estimation between window movement, gun retrieval, whispering,talking in a low tone, shouting, staggering along the corridor, screaming, shouting and the toilet door slamming.

 

[crasshopper]

Yes, fair point. Although OP hasn't really given us a time estimation between window movement, gun retrieval, whispering,talking in a low tone, shouting, staggering along the corridor, screaming, shouting and the toilet door slamming.

...and don't forget sitting over her dying body in the loo