Trial Discussion Thread #29

[wb180]

I think he was fearful on the stand. I think he was exhausted and fearful and confused and having a nervous breakdown on the stand.

So you think because he got confused over 'whisper' versus 'low tone' he lied about murder?

I don't think the Judge will make that leap.

I don't need to rely just on whisper vs low tone to know he is a liar. As pointed out by many posts, his testimony is full of holes and is a lie.

 

[Lyra500]

I don't know why he didn't ask her. He should have asked. He made a lot of unfounded assumptions that night, obviously, or we wouldn't be here.

But, we can attribute all his actions to fear.

You may have chosen to do that, I certainly have not.

For the reasons already stated I believe his claims of 'fear' are for show and totally bogus.

His evasiveness, lying and general demeanour leave me unable to give any credence to his claims.

His original affidavit was highly questionable in content and format, his statement at the start of the trial contradicted some of the affidavit and introduced elements which were clearly 'remembered' to counter the evidence. Finally, the performance on the stand simply confirmed that OP was making things up and lying. Why would someone who was innocent need to do that?

Add this to the five witnesses who heard Reeva Steenkamp screaming in fear for her life and I find it perplexing that anyone chooses to discount all of the above (and more which I just haven't the patience to rehash) and choose to declare OP 'innocent'.

Given that he decided to fetch his gun and deliberately shoot someone dead (regardless of who they turned out to be), precisely what do people think he is innocent of?

 

[wb180]

Well, you have to show me how he proved pre-meditation, because I can't see it.

Hopefully the court will show it. But have a feeling you will disagree with the court if that happens anyways.

 

[Forensics]

Just read an interesting article on Nel and Roux.

http://www.news.com.au/world/africa...ainst-each-other/story-fnh81gzi-1226889146063

Apparently, when investigating the former police chief and Interpol president Jackie Selebi, twenty police officers stormed into Nel's home and arrested him for fraud, in front of his wife and children. "The charge turned out to be nonsense. It was an intimidation tactic, meant to disrupt his investigation."

The information on Roux is also interesting.

 

[Cherwell]

That's a very good point and gives credibility to the statement that the ambulance service told him to drive her in. Maybe they didn't have an ambulance available.

We have services here that are the best in the world, and take it for granted that everyone has them. They don't. It took France two hours to get Princess Diana to a hospital that was 15 minutes away from the accident scene.

Please don't start that. France has excellent emergency and health services.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

I've not seen any OP supporters, just a few people who appear to be aware of the premed. charge, and feel that this has not been established sufficiently.

To their personal standards. The charging document outlines the premed charge as intentional. I believe that is where the confusion lies?

 

[wb180]

I have to disagree with this. As an American if I want something fixed now all I need to do is pay a bit of extra money and I can get bumped to same day service. I would suspect in SA it is very different, if you want something fixed now, even if you are willing to pay the extra bucks you are in competition with a greater pool of people willing to pay big bucks and a smaller skilled labor force is available.

My friend has a winter home in Mexico, her husband took a bad fall, they live next to a doctor, I don’t remember how far away the nearest hospital was but it would be hours before an ambulance got there as he was not considered an emergency, (even though he had bones protruding through his skin) they had put him in a plastic reclining patio chair. The doctor said that the best and fasted thing to do would be to carry him in the chair to the nearest clinic which was about 2 miles away. Getting things done expediently is not always a matter of having money.

How is someone shot in the head not an emergency? Really??

 

[Cherwell]

I don't need to rely just on whisper vs low tone to know he is a liar. As pointed out by many posts, his testimony is full of holes and is a lie.

His testimony resembles a pair of fishnet tights.

 

[molly333]

Hopefully the court will show it. But have a feeling you will disagree with the court if that happens anyways.

I realize I have to bow to the discretion of the Judge. She knows more about that case and SA law than I do. So I'll go along with whatever decision she makes.

 

[Viper]

I have to disagree with this. As an American if I want something fixed now all I need to do is pay a bit of extra money and I can get bumped to same day service. I would suspect in SA it is very different, if you want something fixed now, even if you are willing to pay the extra bucks you are in competition with a greater pool of people willing to pay big bucks and a smaller skilled labor force is available.

My friend has a winter home in Mexico, her husband took a bad fall, they live next to a doctor, I don’t remember how far away the nearest hospital was but it would be hours before an ambulance got there as he was not considered ah n emergency, (even though he had bones protruding through his skin) they had put him in a plastic reclining patio chair. The doctor said that the best and fasted thing to do would be to carry him in the chair to the nearest clinic which was about 2 miles away. Getting things done expediently is not always a matter of having money.

BIB. I personally do not believe your friend's fairy tale. But even if I did that scenario does not relate to having a technician repair or replace an AC unit in an upscale housing compound in SA. It just doesn't.

 

[Cherwell]

You may have chosen to do that, I certainly have not.

For the reasons already stated I believe his claims of 'fear' are for show and totally bogus.

His evasiveness, lying and general demeanour leave me unable to give any credence to his claims.

His original affidavit was highly questionable in content and format, his statement at the start of the trial contradicted some of the affidavit and introduced elements which were clearly 'remembered' to counter the evidence. Finally, the performance on the stand simply confirmed that OP was making things up and lying. Why would someone who was innocent need to do that?

Add this to the five witnesses who heard Reeva Steenkamp screaming in fear for her life and I find it perplexing that anyone chooses to discount all of the above (and more which I just haven't the patients to rehash) and choose to declare OP 'innocent'.

Given that he decided to fetch his gun and deliberately shoot someone dead (regardless of who they turned out to be), precisely what do people think he is innocent of?

A superb post. Should be at the top of every page.

 

[molly333]

How is someone shot in the head not an emergency? Really??

It wouldn't matter if they didn't have an ambulance available.

Don't you find it odd that the Prosecutor didn't put the ambulance service on the stand?


Or did I miss that testimony?

 

[soozieqtips]

I don't know why he didn't ask her. He should have asked. He made a lot of unfounded assumptions that night, obviously, or we wouldn't be here.

But, we can attribute all his actions to fear.

BBM - Or we can attribute all his actions to knowledge. Knowledge of her exact position when he decided to murder her. No need to ask her what the noise was, and would logically explain why he didn't ask.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

It wouldn't matter if they didn't have an ambulance available.

Don't you find it odd that the Prosecutor didn't put the ambulance service on the stand?


Or did I miss that testimony?

Why? What would it add to their case. It has been proven OP has an issue being truthful.

 

[wb180]

It wouldn't matter if they didn't have an ambulance available.

Don't you find it odd that the Prosecutor didn't put the ambulance service on the stand?


Or did I miss that testimony?

Why do they need to put ambulance service on the stand?! That's so weird....

 

[asanque]

It wouldn't matter if they didn't have an ambulance available.

Don't you find it odd that the Prosecutor didn't put the ambulance service on the stand?


Or did I miss that testimony?

There probably was no recording as neither the defence or prosecution appeared to have used it.

Netcare does record phone calls so it leads to two possibles.

1. He called the number but was put on hold and didn't get through to an actual operator (66 second call).

2. Gunshots around 3:16 a.m., he then called Stander at 3:19 a.m. followed by Netcare at 3:21 a.m.

I contend that the timing means he wouldn't have time to actually break down the door at that stage and see Reeva's actual injuries. He may have reported Reeva as being shot but without being able to describe the injuries, they would have asked him to bring her in.

If he actually said she was shot in the head, I'm pretty sure they would have said we will be sending an ambulance quick smart.

 

[steveml]

To their personal standards. The charging document outlines the premed charge as intentional. I believe that is where the confusion lies?

We're all in the same boat with this. The charge is clear, however the one thing we cannot predict is how Judge Masipa will view OP's state of mind before and during the shooting.

This will undoubtedly play a major part towards her eventual verdict with regard to intent.

 

[wb180]

We're all in the same boat with this. The charge is clear, however the one thing we cannot predict is how Judge Masipa will view OP's state of mind before and during the shooting.

This will undoubtedly play a major part towards her eventual verdict with regard to intent.

Given OP is a liar on the stand, I think it is likely he will be charged as his accident/self defense will unlikely to stand.

 

[molly333]

Why? What would it add to their case. It has been proven OP has an issue being truthful.

It would prove he told the truth or he lied.

A lot better to prove it than to leave it up to the good will of those who are judging him.

This wouldn't happen in this country. Everything is recorded and the ambulance gets to where it is going very quickly--'the golden hour.'

The fact that the prosecutor didn't refute this with witness testimony means he couldn't.

 

[turaj]

Agreed! Very well said. Any further expert witnesses will have to be closely evaluated by Roux. And you are right they too have to be aware of what happened to the first two DT witnesses. If roux keeps this up it is just dumb.

Regarding the need to have an extra week postponement of this trial, the first nationally televised trial ever in SA, so that Nel's team can deal with another accused who has been in jail for two years, well that just does not ring completely true. It seems more likely that Roux is pushing OP to plea to a lesser charge, OP is waffling, and Mr. Nel is standing firm on at least murder with the mandatory minimum sentence, 25 years.

Please note that another SA man, an amputee, was just sentenced to life for the murder of his wife. He also received addition sentences, including one for illegal possession of ammunition.

I was wondering the same as to whether Roux was behind the delay. I must say Roux and Nel are very respectful to each other...a fact that does not go unnoticed by this American watcher. So often in our high profile trials the lawyers are virtually attacking each other. This is nice to watch and adds some professionalism to the court.
Clearly OP will be convicted of something here...may not be the premed but also there are other gun charges and the sum total will not bode well for his future. He is a very unstable and broken man...life as OP knows it is done and even if he walked free I think something awful will happen to him or others around him. A plea deal would be his best bet but at this point it would have to involve some serious jail time to even be considered.
Way more going on behind the scenes to delay the trial a full week (over) especially considering the one week delay with the medical situation of judge's assistant. Roux needs this time...Nel sure does not.