Trial Discussion Thread #30

[Carmelita]

So that's pretty much murder right there....

If the core of Oscar's story is true and he thought he had a better chance of staying alive by fighting rather than fleeing it is not murder.

 

[jay-jay]

He did not verify that Reeva was in bed by what standard? His testimony is that he believed 100% that Reeva was in bed. He was 100% wrong, but in his version of that deadly morning Oscar in his own mind had verified that Reeva was in bed through faulty reasoning.

This isn't anything to do with 'faulty reasoning' ... it's total fabrication and a (not very good) cover up for killing his girlfriend. How anyone can be taken in by all this, is an absolute mystery to me .. I can only assume they've not really followed the case that closely right from the start to the point we are now at.

 

[jay-jay]

If he was 100 percent certain Reeva was in there, he would have stood in front of the door arguing with her and shot her right straight through the door as she stood there talking to him.

The prosecutor set up this scenario---she is standing in front of the door facing you through the door because you are talking to her through the door. Then you shoot her.

The forensics say otherwise. All the bullets were angled from a position where he said he was standing, over by the entrance to the bathroom.

He didn't stand in front of the door because he was afraid the person inside the closet could shoot back.

No, he wouldn't stand directly in front of the door .. we went through all of that the other day on here.

 

[Carmelita]

Especially given his displays of emotion to try and make the impression he is grieving for the love of his life. Actually I guess he is grieving for the love of his life, but that's not Reeva Steenkamp.

His displays of emotion are not made to show that he is grieving the love of his life. They are to show his remorse for having killed Reeva and because he must revisit those horrific moments over and again, and because he is being forced to face and take responsibility for killing Reeva.

 

[jay-jay]

Would Oscar need to disclose any mental illness when applying for new firearm licenses?

Good point .. you certainly would have to in the UK.

 

[kittychi]

She's a paramedic .. Leah Skye Malan http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-finds-new-love/ I've got no problem with people whose partners die in tragic circumstances and they find love and companionship again fairly soon after, but not when the person is on bail awaiting a trial for murdering their previous girlfriend .. I find it incredibly odd that someone would even entertain having another girlfriend in those circumstances, even if just out of respect for Reeva .. in fact I think it's pretty sick.

Especially that she has been seen in court!

 

[Carmelita]

This isn't anything to do with 'faulty reasoning' ... it's total fabrication and a (not very good) cover up for killing his girlfriend. How anyone can be taken in by all this, is an absolute mystery to me .. I can only assume they've not really followed the case that closely right from the start to the point we are now at.

I am stating what Oscar's defense is arguing. It has not been determined that Oscar is lying about his knowledge of Reeva's whereabouts and that he with premeditation gunned her down in the toilet.

Many have interpreted that to be the scenario, that does not make it the undisputed factual truth.

 

[james83]

If he was 100 percent certain Reeva was in there, he would have stood in front of the door arguing with her and shot her right straight through the door as she stood there talking to him.

The prosecutor set up this scenario---she is standing in front of the door facing you through the door because you are talking to her through the door. Then you shoot her.

The forensics say otherwise. All the bullets were angled from a position where he said he was standing, over by the entrance to the bathroom.

He didn't stand in front of the door because he was afraid the person inside the closet could shoot back.

Right so if he flew into a rage and went to get his gun, he would then come back into the bathroom and make sure he is standing in the perfect place before firing, is that how rage work's?.

 

[Trooper]

His displays of emotion are not made to show that he is grieving the love of his life. They are to show his remorse for having killed Reeva and he must revisit those horrific moments over and again.

How do you know this??

 

[jay-jay]

Iirc, OP was against his trial being recorded publicly, period, thought it would wreck his credibility etc.....

:facepalm:

 

[Lochlynsmom]

If the core of Oscar's story is true and he thought he had a better chance of staying alive by fighting rather than fleeing it is not murder.

Not according to SA law

 

[lithgow1]

If the core of Oscar's story is true and he thought he had a better chance of staying alive by fighting rather than fleeing it is not murder.

I'm interested in your thoughts on how likely you think it is that M'lady will find the core of his story to be true. I'm inclined to think she will consider it, and then completely reject it. In addition to all her legal expertise I'm sure she also has a good dollop of common sense and a well-honed sense of when a 'version' is a lie and will bring that to her decision making.

 

[james83]

Or assumed she'd gone back to sleep in which case he surely would have shook her to wake her up... beggars belief!

Yep exactly, but it seems anything Oscar did or didn't do that night can be explained away by simply saying he was in a state of terror, :banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Viper]

That just means she didn't breathe. They're not a great news source and they could well have confused never breathing again with immediate death. Personally I'll go with 'Pathologist says that head injury would have been incapacitating but she would not have necessarily died straight away". Especially given the pale heart muscle.

BIB. Oh, alright. They are not a "great news source" but then you accept the part they reported as if they are when it can be twisted to your rather cumbersome hypothesis. :irony:

Here are a couple of others, hopefully one of them is a great news source:

Steenkamp Took Few Breaths After Head Wound

http://www.heraldlive.co.za/steenkamp-took-few-breaths-after-head-wound/

Reeva's final breaths

http://m.news24.com/news24/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Reevas-final-breaths-20140310

Oh! And this one!:

Pathologist Gert Saayman told the court that Steenkamp did not take more than a few breaths after suffering her head wound.

<snipped>

Saayman described the wound to her head as an incapacitating wound, and said there was physical damage to the brain because of a substantial fracture to the base of the skull.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/03/10/the-oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-day-6

 

[jay-jay]

And that's an important video in this matter for several reasons.

1. It shows the alcoholic beverages in the boat.
2. SAPS spokeswoman is commenting on likelhood of charging OP for reckless negligence or such.
3. Later it was 'officially' said that OP was not tested for alcohol
4. SAPS and Pros. Authority did not charge OP with negligence etc.
5. Highly likely corruption/favoritism involved in #3,4 above.
6. At current trial, I recall Roux during EIC, and OP said something like contrary to reports i was not drunk or maybe even said he consumed no alcohol.
Then in afternoon, I recall he said he did have a drink earlier at [his brother's birthday] party. I noted again the contradictory statements

:goodpost: .. and thanks to the poster who originally found that video, too.

 

[Carmelita]

How do you know this??

I don't know it. I was offering a different possibility to this post


Originally Posted by lithgow1 View Post

Especially given his displays of emotion to try and make the impression he is grieving for the love of his life. Actually I guess he is grieving for the love of his life, but that's not Reeva Steenkamp.


I did go back and clarify my post. I do not see others adding "IMO or here is another possibly scenario" to every post they make but I will do that so it is clear that I am offering possibilities and my opinion to help with the flow of the conversation. I do agree it is better to be clear when one is offering an alternative theory and I was not clear.

 

[Trooper]

Oscar is howling and puking in that Court room for a myriad of reasons, all obvious, and mostly rational.. the end of his career, life as he knows it, embarrassment or as he put it in his bail statement 'the mortification' of it all, that everyone knows he is a liar, the bills, the bills , the bills, the end of the dream of being a gun collector, farewell to travel and fame and hello to imprisonment and notoriety, the indignity of being questioned , the iniquity of being the worlds stupidest gun owner, having to constrain his temper for endless hours and days , having to call Judge Masipa 'milady', putting up with dumb coppers day in and day out, being made to think and think instead of just being Oscar, forced to contemplate the consequences, the bills, the bills, loss of income, the bills , no calls from sponsors, . and on and on.

its enough to make any grown man cry. ....

 

[james83]

Barry Bateman &#8207;@barrybateman 2h
@asherjustin I asked both Roux and Webber - what exactly is your client&#8217;s defence? Neither would confirm.

Barry Bateman &#8207;@barrybateman 1h
@asherjustin it could be that under cross-examination the witness went down a path and could not return. We wait for closing argument.

 

[Carmelita]

Not according to SA law

I know many of us have read about SA law and the different defenses. I don't believe that any of us are experts in SA law and that it will be up to the judge if the defense Oscar offers fits the letter of the law and the nuances that are within her purview to entertain when rendering a decision.

 

[Irisha]

Even if one accepts his 'version' as essentially true, which I don't, his thoughts and actions within that 'version' should see him facing a long prison sentence - nothing he did could be said to be reasonable.

It can be difficult to debate this case: you find yourself thinking about fans and balconies and whispers and have to keep reminding yourself that that is all a fiction. Thank goodness for those photos of the bedroom - the placement of the fans and the duvet are quite compelling evidence in undermining his tall tale IMO.

I can't get past his LED light bs. Just how big was this LED bulb/light? Once your eyes are closed can you still see it? Mine's not even noticeable. Didn't OP state he'd already been sleeping 5 hrs. then woke up? It then had to be covered because it bothered him? I sleep with my tv on a few feet from me, never bothers me.:twocents: