Trial Discussion Thread #30

[jay-jay]

I'm not sure we would apply that judgement to a more ordinary person who desired to return to work and a normal routine in the year plus he or she awaited trial.

Other people have to spend that time in jail.

 

[TorisMom003]

so....

If Oscar had "fled the country" that would be PROOF of his guilt.

The fact that he did not flee the country is..... Proof of his guilt.

See how things go when you view everything with a presumption of guilt?

Don't recall seeing that anywhere on this thread other than this particular post. Perhaps reading something into a post that isn't actually there? Would that be an example of presumption of guilt? Assuming that one is thinking that without them ever saying it?

 

[zoran]

Perhaps he ought to spend his time behind the bars reading up. Reading every DIY publication he's able to get his hands on. You know, like how to replace panes of glass, how to install, repair, enable and check alarm systems. How to install burglar bars. If he gets really good at those things, he could possibly make a living by getting odd jobs around the neighborhood.

I mean, let's face it, he's not going to make any money running, nor is gonna be able to shoot off at the range anymore, he's gotta do something...he can put his paranoia to good use.

Course, that's only if he doesn't die whilst in the big house.

How about book and movie deals? millions right there if its allowed

 

[minor4th]

So OP was granted bail on Feb 22, yes? Then on March 11 his lawyers request a bail appeal. That's "after some time with no problems"?

Apparently so

 

[Cherwell]

How could anyone possibly know that OP mistakenly called Baba?

I think it's a reasonable inference, because OP didn't speak to him. Either he misdialled and was intending to call someone else, or the button was pressed accidentally.

This was brought up in the Dateline show. According to that there is no reason to believe OP has a girlfriend, apparently he has been lying low at his uncles house. Whether that is true or not I don't know, you can't believe everything you see/hear in the media.

The girl was named in the tabloids, and photos of her were printed. If it wasn't true, I would expect HER to deny it. Wouldn't you?

(People have talked here about OP's people not denying it, but I don't attach any importance to that either way.)

 

[BritsKate]

Then why did OP call THEM?

Before he called netcare...because he couldn't lift Reeva by himself...even though netcare hadn't yet told him to move her...and then he lifted Reeva by himself.

 

[jay-jay]

I believe he did have all of those bail conditions relaxed. The one I thought was particularly poor was the fact that he was allowed to approach his neighbours "because they might testify against him". Isn't that called witness tampering in this country?

.. absolutely!

 

[soozieqtips]

Didn't Baba also make a second statement too correcting the first? I remember he said he'd been really tired and had come off a 24 hour shift, I think?

I don't remember. Did he have a different recollection of what OP said to him? I missed that.

 

[TorisMom003]

Before he called netcare...because he couldn't lift Reeva by himself...even though netcare hadn't yet told him to move her...and then he lifted Reeva by himself.

No, no. He called STANDER before Netcare. He called Baba AFTER Netcare, Baba called him back after that.

Baba is security. Stander is the friend/estate manager.

 

[minor4th]

I believe he did have all of those bail conditions relaxed. The one I thought was particularly poor was the fact that he was allowed to approach his neighbours "because they might testify against him". Isn't that called witness tampering in this country?

Talking to potential witnesses is a crucial part of preparing a defense (or a prosecution). Can you imagine how unjust it would be to a defendant if only the state's investigators are allowed to talk to potential witnesses?

 

[soozieqtips]

Apparently so

What constitutes 'some' time to you? For me, it's a few months or more.

 

[BritsKate]

I don't remember. Did he have a different recollection of what OP said to him? I missed that.

I thought it was to clear up the 'I'm fine' as opposed to 'Everything's fine'. Roux brought up the initial statement in cross, but Nel brought up the subsequent statement in redirect...or so I thought I remembered. I'll see if I can find out more about the 2nd statement and let you know. If it exists, that is. There's too much bloody back and forth on this case! :tantrum:

 

[minor4th]

A blatant attempt to try and show Reevas friends think that he is innocent of all charges....unbelievable

What is wrong with that if shooting her was actually a mistake? These were Oscar's friends as well.

 

[BritsKate]

No, no. He called STANDER before Netcare. He called Baba AFTER Netcare, Baba called him back after that.

Baba is security. Stander is the friend/estate manager.

Ahh...that's right. I had Stander in my head even though we were talking about Baba. Either way, it looks bad.

 

[minor4th]

What constitutes 'some' time to you? For me, it's a few months or more.

Doesn't matter what I think, if the bail judge is satisfied that's what matters.

 

[TorisMom003]

Talking to potential witnesses is a crucial part of preparing a defense (or a prosecution). Can you imagine how unjust it would be to a defendant if only the state's investigators are allowed to talk to potential witnesses?

Then that would be called a deposition. Where both sides are represented. No, what OP wanted was to be able to go back to his old neighborhood without restrictions and talk to his neighbors. Besides, Dr. Stipp was already told that he "would be getting a call from OP's lawyer" before he went home that early morning. I feel sure that the lawyers for OP already had spoken to or attempted to speak to all of those that reported those sounds of the killing of Reeva. No need for OP to do it, that's what he is paying his lawyers for.

MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

Ahh...that's right. I had Stander in my head even though we were talking about Baba. Either way, it looks bad.

Agreed! But then none of this looks good for OP, IMO.

 

[minor4th]

Then that would be called a deposition. Where both sides are represented. No, what OP wanted was to be able to go back to his old neighborhood without restrictions and talk to his neighbors. Besides, Dr. Stipp was already told that he "would be getting a call from OP's lawyer" before he went home that early morning. I feel sure that the lawyers for OP already had spoken to or attempted to speak to all of those that reported those sounds of the killing of Reeva. No need for OP to do it, that's what he is paying his lawyers for.



MOO

No, you're allowed to talk to potential witnesses without taking their deposition. Just like the police did.

 

[TipDog]

Talking to potential witnesses is a crucial part of preparing a defense (or a prosecution). Can you imagine how unjust it would be to a defendant if only the state's investigators are allowed to talk to potential witnesses?

The DT talking to potential witnesses is not the same as the accused talking directly to them. And I'm of the opinion that, no, the accused should not for a whole host of reasons.

 

[Cherwell]

He wasn't training at the time. Very difficult to run a race when one hasn't trained in a while. And if that was the only thing that he wanted changed in regards to his bail, I might agree with you. But it wasn't. He also wanted to be able to drink, even though according to Uncle Arnold (who must be kept in the dark apparently) OP doesn't drink. He didn't want to have to report to police every two weeks, instead they now come to him whenever they do. He wanted to be able to go back to his home, ya know to talk to his neighbors (can someone say tampering with witnesses???). OP had his lawyers claim that running/racing was his only form of income. But then perhaps by then all of his sponsors had dropped him so that money was no longer flowing to him. But OP also has/had (not sure if they have been sold yet or not) race horses that he owned as well. They make money.

Owning racehorses is a very expensive hobby. They don't make money unless you are very lucky.

How about book and movie deals? millions right there if its allowed

Surely he would not be allowed to profit from his crime? (when if convicted)