Trial Discussion Thread #36 - 14.05.09 Day 29

[soozieqtips]

zwiebel - you deserve a MEDAL for sitting through that. Thank you so much. I had lost the will to live listening to Wollie yesterday, and thought I'd give him another go today - but no - he's not worth getting a cracking headache for.

Aside from that, he came across as quite a nice guy, and he and Nel (when they weren't bickering like an old married couple) seemed to have a genuine respect for each other.

 

[zoran]

Beer????

medication most probably

 

[Val1]

Exhibit MM will be available to press except for pages mentioned by Mr Roux.

Mmm. Kinda funny how censorship decided on Roux's whim, when he acknowledges some of those pics 'aren't sensitive'?

For sure, makes one wonder if he's scared we might find some incriminating evidence that they're managed to sweep under the rug so far....

 

[Cherwell]

Did anyone just notice the size of Woolies briefcase? I was more like a suitcase and yet he's got no notes, no reports, no laptop/computer with all his findings on .. so what's he got in there then? :facepalm:

Beer????

Lets go for it.

"Did anyone just notice the size of Woolies briefcase? It was more like a suitcase and yet he's got no notes, no reports, no laptop/computer with all his findings on .. so what's he got in there then? "

1. Beer
2. Sandwiches (boerewors)

 

[Magdalyn]

The defence witnesses all seem totally disorganised. It's embarrassing to watch. Why do they leave files and photos on their computers instead of printing stuff off to bring into court?

Didn't Alyce Laviolette continually forget her own glasses? :facepalm:

 

[zwiebel]

zwiebel - you deserve a MEDAL for sitting through that. Thank you so much. I had lost the will to live listening to Wollie yesterday, and thought I'd give him another go today - but no - he's not worth getting a cracking headache for.

Aside from that, he came across as quite a nice guy, and he and Nel (when they weren't bickering like an old married couple) seemed to have a genuine respect for each other.

I totally agree about the mutual respect..it became very obvious in those little 'Captain' exchanges. I'd go so far as to say they possibly get on well outside court.

It was a bit difficult to follow but no medals please. I break all jewellery...

 

[JudgeJudi]

I can't find 127 grain Black Talons anywhere on the internet, only 127 grain Ranger-T series.

 

[Magdalyn]

Lets go for it.

"Did anyone just notice the size of Woolies briefcase? I was more like a suitcase and yet he's got no notes, no reports, no laptop/computer with all his findings on .. so what's he got in there then? "

1. Beer
2. Sandwiches (boerewoers)

3,4, and 5: Watches and cell phones and Frank?

 

[Gryffindor]

I totally agree about the mutual respect..it became very obvious in those little 'Captain' exchanges. I'd go so far as to say they possibly get on well outside court.

It was a bit difficult to follow but no medals please. I break all jewellery...

I believe Woolie was Nel's boss at one point in time

 

[crasshopper]

Glad the splenters came up, I never felt confident re use of board.

To be honest I believe this is all over.

So unpleasant to see the expert demolished after a distinguished career, but he set himself up for this. It's hard to take in some of the blatant incompetence. Should have known better.

There's sharp brains re Nel and team.

Not the first time he's been demolished and trumped by Mangena's testimony.

Can't find the link now though...

 

[Gryffindor]

Well, bless his hard of hearing, dodgy back-ed, confuddled, bewildered heart. Woolie <3 x

 

[Gryffindor]

Zweibel and Trooper - thanks so much for your hilarious transcripts throughout. PMSL at nearly every post. Comedy gold. Many thanks :-D x

 

[sleuth-d-]

Right. Skin will stretch and tear. Its not reliable to try to match it.

Just like a tin can when holes are shot through the holes are much larger and tearing occurs on side of holes.

Now if the surface is much harder then you get a better reflection of the bullet. Take the door for example. Notice the nice holes in the door where bullet enters. Closely match the bullet on the entrance side of the hole.

The backside of the door will blow apart because wood fragments and bullet malformation causes the back of the hole to blow out the backside. So the holes as the bullet exits the door is much larger and really gets much larger and rough edges.

With skin it is much much different because the skin surface rips and tears and stretches. Its not reliable to try to match.

but a better match than any part of the magazine rack. which i think is the point that the pt are trying to make.

 

[crasshopper]

Just in case anyone cares and it hasn't been posted yet:

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-sells-his-house-report

That was fast!

 

[Ncl1968]

Can anyone sum up what we learned today please I had terrible internet today

 

[Gryffindor]

So Woolie's position . . . . . ?

1st shot hip
2nd shot arm?
3rd shot ?
4th shot head

Can anyone help? Is any of that correct?

Thank you. I'm off to take Woolie for SEVERAL beers ;-)

 

[JudgeJudi]

Nel called him Capt Wolmarans several times and apologised to Masipa on the last occasion. He explained he'd been in court with Wolmarans when he was a captain many years ago. I got the impressions they know each other fairly well. Nel and W laughed.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I believe Woolie was Nel's boss at one point in time

Do you not mean the other way round? You may be right, of course, when Nel was a young lawyer. It just sounded a little odd.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Interested discussion on WhoopWhoop with respect to gastric emptying. The physician wonders why a gastroenterologist was not used rather than an anaesthetist. He says he expects a stomach to be empty after 6 hours and it has been validated throughout the world. He says at gastroscopy, after a 6 hour fast, the stomach is normally pristine.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I agree except that in the end both Mangena's and Wolmaran's are only opinions not fact, and all the defence needs to do is to give a different reasonable possibility of how the events took place, which imho they have done, even explaining a few points Mangena's theory obviated such as the wood splinters in the arm wound which from W's testimony and research it seems extremely unlikely that wood splinters would carry over to the arm wound but not to the head wound therefore I consider the defence theory of the arm being nearer the door has more weight here... that said that is for Masipa to decide anyway, so who knows.

Also after listening to the first part of Mangena's testimony last night (I am going to listen to the rest to day and try to transcribe it over the weekend as I feel the ballistics are going to be really important to Masipa finding murder or CH) two things struck me so far:

1. Mangena didn't actually conclude the order of the last two shots, i.e. arm and head in fact he said he didn't know
2. Mangena did not introduce the "bang...bang,bang,bang" as a part of his theory rather as far as I got into listening he took it up on Nel's prompting​

IMO

agree about the splinters. especially that the arm wound/close splinter pattern around the wound means the arm shot had to be closer to the door than mangena was saying.

having said that it is a small space, being hit on the arm falling backwards or being hit on the arm sitting on the mag rack, doesn't prevent rs from being hit on the head and falling towards the toilet bowl area.

mangena wasn't sure whether the last two shots were in order c then d; or d then c, iirc.