Trial Discussion Thread #36 - 14.05.09 Day 29

[katydid23]

did the judge seriously say that?

Not the judge in THIS case. Not Milady. Another judge on an expert panel.

 

[ColonelMustard]

did the judge seriously say that?

Not M'lady. Judge Greenland(?) at lithgow1's link "I just found this..."

 

[minor4th]

LOL. Thanks for this. Here's my version:

Nel: Mr. Pistorius, did you have a pee this morning?
Nel: Why are you crying?

** 10 Minute Adjournment **

Nel: Mr. Pistorius, did you have a pee this morning?
Ocscar: I did my Lady. I relieved myself at 6:42 am.
Nel: YOURSELF. That's right. You relieved YOURSELF. This is all about YOU.
Oscar: Um
Nel: Um? Why did you say um?
Oscar: I, I don't know my Lady. I was confused by the question.
Nel: No no no Mr. Pistorius. You cannot get away with that. You said um. Why would you say that? My question was about whether relieving yourself was all about you. Why did you say um?
Oscar: I don't know my Lady.
Nel: Tell the court exactly what you did.
Oscar: I walked to the bathroom and I raised the lid and
Nel: You raised the lid? Mr. Pistorius you didn't say you raised the lid when you told the court a few minutes ago you relieved yourself at 6:42 am.
Oscar: I raised the lid my Lady. Otherwise there would have been piss all over the floor.
Nel: No Mr. Pistorius. You see? You are tailoring your evidence.
Oscar: I'm not tailoring my evidence my Lady.
Roux: My lady I apologize for it the interjection, but I just wanted to say that your bun is brilliant today. One can only assume it must be there to hold your vast intellect my Lady. Sorry for the interruption my Lady. I just hadn't grovelled to you for while and I was getting anxious. Thank you my Lady.
Judge: Yes.
Nel: Mr. Pistorius, why are you tailoring your evidence?
Oscar: How can you sleep at night?
Nel: What?
Oscar: What?
Nel: Why did you say that?
Oscar: I didn't.
Nel: Mr. Pistorius you asked how I can sleep at night!
Oscar: No I didn't my Lady.
Nel: Do you walk to work or take a lunch?
Oscar: I...what?
Nel: What is the last movie you saw?
Oscar: Escape from Alcatraz
Nel: Okay, so you claim you opened the lid and then what?
Oscar: During the movie? What lid? I had some M & Ms.
Nel: You cannot get away with this Mr. Pistorius. Pretending you don't understand the question. You claimed to this court that you opened the toilet lid. What time did you open it?
Oscar: 6:42 my Lady.
Nel: No! You told this court you relieved yourself at 6:42! You are lying about relieving yourself Mr. Pistorius. Why would you do that? I put it to you that you did not relieve yourself this morning or any time since. What do you say Mr. Pisorius? Sorry, Mr. Pistorius?
Oscar: I relieved myself my Lady. As I said, I relieved myself on the balcony at 6:42.
Nel: The balcony?
Oscar: I made a mistake my Lady. I relieved myself in the toilet.
Nel: May it please the court my lady I'd like to please the court. Can we take a short adjournment, please? To please the court?

Adjourned.

Brilliant!

 

[katydid23]

Here is the link to the 'gobsmacked' judge:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFM3d6sA-SY

 

[ColonelMustard]

Good grief! I've just come to the end of the posts for today/tonight. I don't like it.

 

[Interested Bystander]

did the judge seriously say that?

Absolutely! Those are judge Greenland's exact words.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hi all. Long time lurker, first time poster here.eace:

<respectfully snipped>

Welcome to the gang :welcome5:

 

[Budgie]

Good grief! I've just come to the end of the posts for today/tonight. I don't like it.

Why is that Colonel?

 

[jimmy73]

Does anyone know anything about this issue of the crickets in the background during the outdoor gun and bat sound tests, where the prosecution are claiming (or moving towards claimimg) that the insects are louder in the bat test, suggesting it's been amplified?'.

I think it was put to Dixon that the recordings could have been normalised or the bat sounds boosted/gained in some way. I never heard a response and I believe the defence weren't able / didn't want to argue it.

I was surprised Nel didn't get it confirmed for the record though. Given the obvious difference between the loudness of a gunshot and a cricket bat hit, the latter would need some boosting to bring it to the same level as a gunshot. W admitted as much yesterday when he referred to the respective sound levels.

 

[crasshopper]

Hi all. Long time lurker, first time poster here.eace:

Snipped by me for relevance

Just on Wolmerans. I don't get the impression that he's tailored his evidence and he has come across as fairly honest imho.
...

He does however come across as being fairly disorganised as far as report writing and record keeping during his investigations. That may explain why he only has the one report, his final report.It does seem a bit odd for an expert working for the defence though. Surely they would request regular updates during his investigations.
...
JMO

:welcome: From a relative newbie too Thoughtful post indeed.

I think when Woolie admitted he watched earlier ( Mangena's) testimony and revised his notes he conceeded to 'tailoring.' Highly irregular and flauts standards of discovery. He's a professional...there was no oversight involved, strictly calculation imo.

Providing updates during the course of your investigation is one thing, not summarizing in a detailed final report and making that available to the court and PT from the outset, points to another imho.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10529050&postcount=882

Looking forward to seeing you here!

 

[BarnacleZA]

My first post here... And sorry for just jumping in like this, but this is just to answer a few questions about some questions asked in an earlier post...

Wollie left the SAPS in about 1992, which was at about the same time, I started in the SAPS Engineering unit (1992-1999). I worked quite a bit with Gerrie Nel later on 1996-1999, when we did a number of investigations against corrupt policemen at vehicle clearance centers and also did a number of investigations of vehicle theft syndicates... At that stage Gerrie Nel was a reasonably senior prosecutor already.

After I left the SAPS, Gerrie Nel (at the dept of Justice at the time) was appointed as head of the "Scorpions" which was an independent of the SAPS, but they had a number of SAPS members seconded to them to investigate corruption in the SAPS and other government departments.

Any interaction between Wollie and Gerrie (when Wollie was a policeman), would have been before 1992, with Wollie as ballistic expert for the police and Gerrie as a prosecutor.

 

[Karmady]

Absolutely! Those are judge Greenland's exact words.

Right. I wasn't talking about the talking head judge. I was asking whether the actual judge in the case said that...which would be incomprehensible. A couple of posters have already clarified that it's not the actual judge. Thanks, though

 

[steveml]

Wasn't the toilet full of dark blood?

That's correct.

No excuse for forensics to miss something because of some blood.

That would be like a mechanic not wanting to get oil on his hands.

 

[JudgeJudi]

... Mangena's bottom... Do people really use the word "bottom" any more?

In Oz we do, but the younger generations are far more likely to say something else.

We also have some words that make us all :floorlaugh: when visitors innocently use them because they've been given a whole new meaning here. I won't give any examples though. You Aussies will know what I mean.

 

[Budgie]

If Nel keeps going on Monday the way he did yesterday with Woolie on the stand. I can not for the life of me see how Roux will wrap up on Tuesday as he told Judge Masipa. Does anyone know who the next witness on the list is?

 

[steveml]

So, Wollie was tasked with fishing it out.

The man has a bad back, a huge stomach, and he can barely breathe.

He probably leaned over, passed out, and his hand just fell into it.

BBM

Or, maybe, just maybe the guy's probably the most respected person in his field because he's good at his job? :waitasec:

...and are people with large stomachs not entitled to jobs?

 

[jassy writer]

I can't help wondering who has purchased the house - I wouldn't be surprised if residents got together and bought it. Otherwise, it could end up with a buyer who gives guided tours or something.

The agents says they accepted one 'of all the offers', but I do wonder exactly how many offers there were.

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-sells-his-house-report

Maybe one of OP's family bought it, through a CC or something so the purchase couldn't be traced...?

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

I have a quirky thing happen to me all the time. Often when I click on the Thanks button I get a yellow triangle coming up with "Message from webpage" inside it and the Thanks won't register. The only way around it is for me to go forward or backward a page and the Thanks is there again. It drives me nut.

Me too!! It's very frustrating. Each time it happens, I think "I must do something about this", but I don't. Thank you for taking the initiative.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

In Oz we do, but the younger generations are far more likely to say something else.

We also have some words that make us all :floorlaugh: when visitors innocently use them because they've been given a whole new meaning here. I won't give any examples though. You Aussies will know what I mean.

like "we're rooting for the prosecution"!!

 

[crasshopper]

There are plenty of ways in the US to avoid disclosing multiple drafts of an expert report. Happens all the time. jmo

Yes but what do you think about not submitting a final report to the opposing team during discovery.