Trial Discussion Thread #49 - 14.08.7, Day 39 ~final arguments~

[zwiebel]

Nel is onto startles now, how first startle made OP anxious, third made him so anxious he shot, but court was asked to ignore second - it didn't matter. "An expert cannot testify like that".

 

[zwiebel]

Nel: Any proper expert wld be interested in what accused thought about a sound, but not this one. Derman was just happy there was a sound...biased.....

Nel quotes Derman saying 'My memory is fuzzy on this', adds he did not take notes. Says his expert evidence is unreliable.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

So far, I've seen OP yawn THREE times and clench his jaw repeatedly. What does this mean, to any body-language experts in house?

Fascinating stuff.

No expert: stress but not tiredness, circulation problems?

 

[44ALLAN]

Nel: When he carried Reeva downstairs, Carise arrived. And they attended to her. He never had opp to put his phone on charger. Must have put it on sometime before that...

Judge interrupts and asks if OP was ever asked when he put phone on charger. Nel says no.

But I'm sure I can remember Nel asking him that very question?
Maybe not 'when' but I think he asked him how it got there at least !

 

[zwiebel]

Nel now reading something very fast that deals with mitigating factors v aggressive, deliberate ones. I think it's an example of case law?

 

[zwiebel]

Nel: He is goal directed...he keeps his eye on window and the door, but just at the moment he fired the shot, he wasn't....

Nel pointing out here where court's been asked to accept OP was in control enough to hear/note all those details on way to toilet, but only when he got there and fired, court's asked to accept he was not in control, just then.

 

[kaos]

I think they need to start using PowerPoint Both Nel and Roux are bad at having their files ready for the judge.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel: If the court wants to accept it was an automatic reaction, there would have to be some sort of amnesia....

Nel now talking about automonism? which I can't spell.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Oh, rain in the north... Come down to the south, Freiburg! Would enjoy to share with you as I know NOBODY around me sharing my interest in this trial.

Oh, I know exactly that problem with no sharing the interest in Websleuth at all, not only trial OP. I'm alone as you are, so sorry for us! Freiburg I don't know, only from TV and pics. A charming town I think? Would like to travel right away! :smile:

 

[zwiebel]

Nel says case law requires amnesia for an 'automatic response' defence to be accepted.

 

[kaos]

I think this is the case law Nel was referring to.

http://criminallawza.net/2014/05/17/pistoriuss-third-defence-pathological-incapacity-insanity/

http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZASCA/2002/24.html

At first I thought he was saying "E, D" :blushing:

 

[AlwaysShocked]

A yawn is considered to be a reflex. Lots of theories and lots of studies related to what causes yawning. Known things that can increase yawning are: tiredness and lack of sleep, certain illnesses such as Multiple Sclerosis, certain medications such as tranquilzing type of drugs - including SSRIs used to treat depression, and stress

Several earlier theories regarding yawning have been disproved by controlled studies, including that it indicates a need for more oxygen or less carbon dioxide in one's system.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, I know exactly that problem with no sharing the interest in Websleuth at all, not only trial OP. I'm alone as you are, so sorry for us! Freiburg I don't know, only from TV and pics. A charming town I think? Would like to travel right away! :smile:

I'm supposed to be away on holiday now. I cancelled. Just to miss half when we restarted this morning anyway...

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Oscar Trial Channel ‏@OscarTrial199 1m
Nel: state witnesses, Van der Merwe, Burger, Stipps are all independent witnesses, we have no indication of knowing one another.

Nel: when they made their statements, they had never met...showed it an unblemished view of events.


Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 1m
Nel: it’s not possible that independent witnesses could make statements with that amount of corroboration.

Nel: the witnesses remained steadfast despite untested claims (Oscar’s woman screams) being put to them. BB

 

[zwiebel]

Nel: Credibility...we have to emphasise state witnesses are all independent ( Burger, Johnson etc). They did not know each other, none of them have ever met the accused....they corroborate each others evidence...

When they made statements to police, they'd never met each other...came to court with sole aim of telling truth.....They remain steadfast, defence stance that cricket bat sounds like gunshot, OP screams like a woman, remains unproven.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel pursues the 'scientific' tests from defence that were never produced.

 

[zwiebel]

Sorry, this bit confused me - talking about state witness who wanted a translator, English wasn't first language?

 

[kittychi]

I'm supposed to be away on holiday now. I cancelled. Just to miss half when we restarted this morning anyway...

Glad you cancelled, Zwiebel...we would have had to cut your pay. :laughing::loveyou:

 

[zwiebel]

Nel wants lunch. Did he say half an hour?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Oscar Trial Channel ‏@OscarTrial199 1m
Nel: Johnson even produced a document that couldn't be discredited...strengthened his evidence.