Trial Discussion Thread #5 - 14.03.11-12, Day 7-8

[atthelake]

His motive is his plea bargain that kept him out of jail

I didn't realize that he had a criminal case against him when this was presented. I had thought that he brought it up himself after it was NOT prosecuted or put forth in any way. Can you/others share with me the reference you must be referring to of a criminal charge that this testimony is a plea bargain for?

I thought it was only brought out for this trial..where he admitted something that was "swept under the rug" before....and he had no outstanding charges for.....not on one that he was being prosecuted for.

You guys are great bringing this information forward as I had no idea on this as being the case!

TIA!!!

 

[MeeBee]

Hello newbie here. Thanks for letting me join!

I am wondering if anyone else is seeing this: if you look at the bathroom pic of the bashed in door, the opening where the panel fell out seems to be right next to the lock. In other words, all OP had to do was reach in and unlock the door - no need for any key. Why did he put in anything about a key?? Who keeps a key to the bathroom INSIDE the bathroom - unless, it was hanging outside the bathroom and RS took it out when going in to make sure that he couldn't come after her? It just seemed like an odd thing to mention that he saw the key on the floor...

Also, when Dr Stipp testified that he saw a person walking from right to left in the lit up bathroom (in between the 2 volleys for bangs and while the screams were going on), I could be wrong but it sounded to me like he meant that the windows were closed (frosted pane)? If closed, why did OP say that he heard them opening? They weren't talking about the toilet windows.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I think it was the kind of lock that needed a key to lock and unlock. If the key is taken out then it's locked and you can't unlock it without a key.

 

[minor4th]

Yep. I'll give you that minor! You are a good atty. Stating fact that may look bad...but I'm... "so what" and agree.

Yes... he did perhaps do a plea bargain to tell the truth. It, to me, only REINFORCES that he is telling the truth. Why else would he go through all of that to get the truth out and do a plea when he could have just denied it.

<modsnip>:giggle:

I am not a defense attorney! Remember the Jodi Arias trial and the Martin MacNeill trial?

 

[lisasalinger]

Hello newbie here. Thanks for letting me join!

I am wondering if anyone else is seeing this: if you look at the bathroom pic of the bashed in door, the opening where the panel fell out seems to be right next to the lock. In other words, all OP had to do was reach in and unlock the door - no need for any key. Why did he put in anything about a key?? Who keeps a key to the bathroom INSIDE the bathroom - unless, it was hanging outside the bathroom and RS took it out when going in to make sure that he couldn't come after her? It just seemed like an odd thing to mention that he saw the key on the floor...

Also, when Dr Stipp testified that he saw a person walking from right to left in the lit up bathroom (in between the 2 volleys for bangs and while the screams were going on), I could be wrong but it sounded to me like he meant that the windows were closed (frosted pane)? If closed, why did OP say that he heard them opening? They weren't talking about the toilet windows.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Hi Zhooter... welcome!!

Somebody else (not on this board) pointed out to me today that there is no door knob on this door. I'm such a knucklehead, I can't believe I never noticed it before.

Apparently in SA and other places, there are doors that only open/close fully by key. This may be one of those types of doors. So the only way to securely close the door is to lock it. It appears you could close it without locking it, but it wouldn't be tightly secured. Hopefully that makes sense.

If Reeva had locked the door from inside when she went in there, he would need a key to open it up... IF this is that type of door.

Again, we really need to see this darn door in court and hear the forensic reports on it. I will be royally peeved if we don't get to see crime scene photos of it, or the actual door itself in court, which I have a feeling we won't the way it's been going But at least we can hear the testimony.

 

[minor4th]

I didn't realize that he had a criminal case against him when this was presented. I had thought that he brought it up himself after it was NOT prosecuted or put forth in any way. Can you/others share with me the reference you must be referring to of a criminal charge that this testimony is a plea bargain for?

I thought it was only brought out for this trial..where he admitted something that was "swept under the rug" before....and he had no outstanding charges for.....not on one that he was being prosecuted for.

You guys are great bringing this information forward as I had no idea on this as being the case!

TIA!!!

I posted this to you on the last page, but you might have missed it. Watch the beginning of the video linked below and the judge reads out the plea agreement

http://new.livestream.com/wildaboutt...ideos/44826550

 

[Zinn]

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I finally had a chance to listen to Dr. Stipp's testimony from last week and it was very detailed and compelling. The cross was interesting, as well. The objections from Nel during cross gave a glimpse into part of the State's case, IMO. I would encourage anyone interested to seek it out. I won't go into detail here as it's from last week and I don't want to derail discussion about the more recent testimony.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

Sorry to quote my own post, but one more thing to add on this.

One thing that makes Dr. Stipp such an interesting witness is that he seemed to come into contact with so many other witnesses (as well as the accused and the victim) by nature of his dual status as neighbor and care provider. These witnesses include his wife, then Baba and two other guards who drove to Stipp's house to discuss the sounds he reported, then whoever was at the security station when Stipp drove past there next to ask if it was okay to for him to go to the scene of the incident to offer medical help, then Stander, his daughter, Oscar and Reeva (who was deceased at that point), then Stander's wife who arrived after Stipp, then Netcare via phone (Stander dialed but Stipp spoke with them), and then paramedics who arrived on the scene (though I don't know if he actually spoke with the paramedics after they arrived). He was also in a unique position to see and hear commotion from his house and then experience what was happening inside OP's house. Finally, I would think his testimony could be helpful in establishing or at least corroborating rough timelines given his outgoing calls and many points of contact (personally and geographically) throughout the evening.

One thing I didn't catch was whether he has been excused for the rest of the trial. Did anyone catch this? If so, TIA for responding.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

 

[atthelake]

Good point zwiebel, how would she have known to cover up? (If she did)

We have the diagram upthread as to the wounds, but can someone here state without a doubt what the evidence is as to where the bullets lodged? Would help .

TIA

 

[Harmony 2]

Friendly reminder: I am seeing a lot of personalized posts. Comments should be about the content of posts, not about the person who posted. And comments and replies should be respectful of the other person's point of view. Please consider the following when posting:

YOU

If you see the above word in your posts it may be wise to go back and review your post before hitting submit. At websleuths we do not allow personalization of posts and the use of the word YOU is a good gauge as to whether a post is addressing the post and not the poster.​

 

[Zhooter]

Hi Zhooter... welcome!!

Somebody else (not on this board) pointed out to me today that there is no door knob on this door. I'm such a knucklehead, I can't believe I never noticed it before.

Apparently in SA and other places, there are doors that only open/close fully by key. This may be one of those types of doors. So the only way to securely close the door is to lock it. It appears you could close it without locking it, but it wouldn't be tightly secured. Hopefully that makes sense.

If Reeva had locked the door from inside when she went in there, he would need a key to open it up... IF this is that type of door.

Again, we really need to see this darn door in court and hear the forensic reports on it. I will be royally peeved if we don't get to see crime scene photos of it, or the actual door itself in court, which I have a feeling we won't the way it's been going But at least we can hear the testimony.

Thanks lisasalinger.

The thing is, I clearly see the door knob (it's a long thin metal that juts out toward the bashed up opening) and the lock under it and it definitely looks to me like a normal lock - not one that would need a key to unlock from the inside. I'd put the picture here if I only knew how... Does anyone else see this from the leaked crime scene photo of the door?

 

[lisasalinger]

We have the diagram upthread as to the wounds, but can someone here state without a doubt what the evidence is as to where the bullets lodged? Would help .

TIA

For the arm wound, they said the bullet likely went thru the arm and in to the head.

On her head, it sounds like there were bullet fragments in the brain (I'm not sure if any were retrieved), but there was an exit wound on the left side of the head, so some of the bullet exited out.

The hip was totally shattered and the bullet was so fragmented that they could not retrieve fragments.

One bullet was found in the toilet. And the last bullet, not sure.

 

[Zhooter]

Sorry to quote myself but I'm just starting to learn how this all works - see pic 4 in the slide show - can you see the door "knob" (more of a handle) and the lock under it RIGHT NEXT TO THE OPENING that's been bashed open?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...a-steenkamp-shot-dead-pictures_n_3364095.html

 

[atthelake]

The blood splatter evidence in the toilet doesn't support their theory that the first bullet struck her head, since a few blonde hairs were found in her clutched hand right, indicating that Reeva right hand clasped the bullet wound to her head to ease the agonizing pain in a reflex motion.With her right hand in such a frozen state on her head, it would have been impossible for any bullet to hit the same hand at such an angle split two fingers then penetrate her elbow and break it.

OK... I'll admit that I haven't watched each and every day... but when was blood spatter introduced into evidence during the trial? Link please? And when was it introduced in trial that a few blonde hairs were clutched in her hand?

I do not recall ANY evidence or person on the stand introducing this as fact. Is south Africa just a country where media releases information like Nancy Grace :banghead: and there is not an introduction of evidence during proceedings? That it is ASSUMED that the judge has x information or photos?

Oh dear, for this to be the first SA court case televised, and no laying of groundwork with the fact of the case is really difficult to even fathom following and trying to make sense of it. Throwing in Roux (lol, yes, I would like VERY much to THROW IN ROUX!!!) makes it even more confusing as to the FACTS and the EVIDENCE for the case.

 

[lisasalinger]

Sorry to quote myself but I'm just starting to learn how this all works - see pic 4 in the slide show - can you see the door "knob" (more of a handle) and the lock under it RIGHT NEXT TO THE OPENING that's been bashed open?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...a-steenkamp-shot-dead-pictures_n_3364095.html

Yes! I see it now. Thx. The pic that I was working from was zoomed in closer and I always thought that long silver thing was a towel bar on the back of the door. I can see now that it's a handle. I wish we could see the whole door and the door jam to fully understand how this particular door works.

 

[lisasalinger]

OK... I'll admit that I haven't watched each and every day... but when was blood spatter introduced into evidence during the trial? Link please? And when was it introduced in trial that a few blonde hairs were clutched in her hand?

I do not recall ANY evidence or person on the stand introducing this as fact. Is south Africa just a country where media releases information like Nancy Grace :banghead: and there is not an introduction of evidence during proceedings? That it is ASSUMED that the judge has x information or photos?

Oh dear, for this to be the first SA court case televised, and no laying of groundwork with the fact of the case is really difficult to even fathom following and trying to make sense of it. Throwing in Roux (lol, yes, I would like VERY much to THROW IN ROUX!!!) makes it even more confusing as to the FACTS and the EVIDENCE for the case.

They have not analyzed blood spatter yet.

I'm not sure about the two strands of blond hair in her hand. Was that from yesterday maybe?

 

[atthelake]

I think also that the height of OP without prosthetics should be taken into consideration. I have a link that may or may not be 100% true but near enough. It says he is 5 ft without prosthetics and 6 ft with them. 5ft is a height to be well enough above the half way mark of the door no?

Although feel free to have a go at me as I am a 99% lurker and no professional but I thought this may be of use

<modsnip>

:welcome5: :welcome6:

I too thought that when I saw Vinnie Politan on HLN doing a mock scene. I was yelling at my television that he has about 40% of the length of his bottom legs...not comparable at ALL for those that have seen his previous interviews. I don't believe he runs on his "knees" and I believe he runs on his "stumps" without his prosthetics based on what I've seen. And he won many races at a young age running on such...

MOO

 

[Harmony 2]

We have the diagram upthread as to the wounds, but can someone here state without a doubt what the evidence is as to where the bullets lodged? Would help .

TIA

Saayman then described Steenkamp's other external injuries, including two wounds on her skull and scalp. As these wounds were being described, Pistorius could be heard loudly wretching in the dock.
Another wound was found on Steenkamp's fractured upper arm, which showed the bullet had passed through it entirely.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/reeva-s-head-wound-fatal-pathologist-1.1659020#.Ux_GFiGYbIX

Pistorius cried in the dock as Saayman described how a bullet entered Steenkamp’s head in the right upper part, and ran under the skull before it exited from a second wound in the head.

http://citizen.co.za/141361/family-members-console-pistorius/

Saayman said this could have stemmed from the injury that Steenkamp had sustained on her right hip, where a bullet had penetrated.

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b7b061...ned-bruising-on-her-back,-buttocks-and-breast

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Before assuming that my recollection is biased or wrong, consider that I may be correct. She heard one voice before the shots.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uadnpxsXaKY"]Oscar Pistorius Trial: Tuesday 4 March 2014, Session 3 - YouTube[/URL]

The witness who heard the two voices arguing was Ms. Merwe, correct? The above video clip is Michelle Burger testifying.

 

[minor4th]

The witness who heard the two voices arguing was Ms. Merwe, correct? The above video clip is Michelle Burger testifying.

The video should be cued to the point where they confirm that Merwe heard one voice, not two. It is Merwe testifying, not Burger.

If it's not cued properly, it starts at 1:03:17

Then there's another discussion about her hearing only one voice at 1:08:25

 

[curiousjo]

The doctor heard two distinct voices - a woman screaming and a lower pitched male.

 

[minor4th]

The doctor heard two distinct voices - a woman screaming and a lower pitched male!

Yet, he never mentioned a man screaming in his prior statements on 2-15-13 and 3-18-13. It's unusual for a witness to remember additional details after a year - usually their first statement after the incident is more accurate. In this case, he gave his first statement the next day and before the bail hearing.