Trial Discussion Thread #5 - 14.03.11-12, Day 7-8

[AlwaysShocked]

"Never examined or tested the door in situ at the crime scene for the ORIGINAL report.

Bits of the door were lost somewhere and have not been found

Testing on the door in lab did not replicate position of door in home - it was leant up against a cupboard."


I don't think the forensics people ever do their testing out in the field, unless it is something like using luminal to determine if something is a blood stain. For this door, they would have wanted to have it in a laboratory in order to use magnifying glasses to examine the dents and to accurately measure the dents, don't you think?

How would whether the door was straight up and down or leaning a little have any impact on the testing they did?

 

[canny]

Whoop saying Col overbalanced at one stage - maybe when court laughed?

Just imagine OP brought in two big fans from his balcony into his bedroom in pitch darkness on his stumps

 

[bessie]

Based on what I've head so far, it seems as if the Col is saying that OP was on his stumps when he struck the door with the cricket bat.

Which could suggest he banged up the bathroom with the cricket bat BEFORE he shot through the door. At least I *think* that's where this is headed.

 

[BritsKate]

Debora Patta ‏@Debora_Patta 2m
#OscarTrial Just heard the adjournment now extended through lunch - back at 2pm SA time which is 12 UK and 6am in NY

https://twitter.com/Debora_Patta

Her NY time is off though. NY will be 8am. I think. :biggrin:

 

[21merc7]

I am (seriously) wondering if the judge has played cricket at all. I feel natural/unnatural positioning is something a player would just know, as you have to have swung a bat and felt how it feels?

Agreed.

It clearly looked more like a golf move, only putter (bat) in the air, when the man was on the opposite side of the door handle, and said it was unnatural. I took it he meant, it was not the way one would swing a cricket bat at all, or even try to smash a door with it at all.

 

[soozieqtips]

Which could suggest he banged up the bathroom with the cricket bat BEFORE he shot through the door. At least I *think* that's where this is headed.

That will be a turn up for the books as just about everyone has stated that the cricket bashing couldn't possibly have come before the shots! IF it's proved he was bashing the door down first, then it's clear premeditated murder.

 

[katydid23]

Which could suggest he banged up the bathroom with the cricket bat BEFORE he shot through the door. At least I *think* that's where this is headed.

But Roux asked the Colonel that specific question, and got him to say that the bat came afterwards, because of the way the door was split.

The colonel locked the state into the 'Bat after Shots' Position.

 

[james83]

So the colonel said the gun shots came before the cricket bat and that Oscar was on his stumps and not as he claimed on false legs when he used the cricket bat, why is Oscar lying about putting the false legs on?, surely it fits his version of events legs on or off?, unless he broke down the door realised she was dead and spent a few minutes wondering how he was going to cover this up, this adds weight to the cover up theories with Stander that before this i thought were to far fetched doesn't it?.

 

[bessie]

But Roux asked the Colonel that specific question, and got him to say that the shots came afterwards, because of the way the door was split.

The colonel locked the state into the 'Bat after Shots' Position.

I know. Chalk up one for the defense.

Roux: "When the shots were fired, the door was intact." Vermeulen: "That is true, my lady."
https://twitter.com/SmithInAfrica/status/443694468773216257

Vermeulen: "I would say the door was hit after the shots." Points to bullet hole. "There had to be a hole before this piece broke off."
https://twitter.com/SmithInAfrica/status/443694773921406976

 

[soozieqtips]

But Roux asked the Colonel that specific question, and got him to say that the shots came afterwards, because of the way the door was split.

The colonel locked the state into the 'Bat after Shots' Position.

My brain is addled today. If he got him to say the shots came afterwards, then the bat came before? So 'bat after shots' contradicts that. I need to eat breakfast :smile:

 

[BritsKate]

Rohit Kachroo@RohitKachrooITV Cricket bat being passed around during break in court hearing. Bathroom door still next to witness box

https://twitter.com/RohitKachrooITV

(It's just so foreign to me that evidence is so lackadaisically passed around! Too used to brown paper bags, plastic wrap, and evidence numbers.)

 

[sorrell skye]

I just don't know if I can have any confidence in this Col's door testimony.

1. Pieces of the door were lost.

2. Lab conditions didn't replicate position of door in OP's house.

3. The door was leaning against a cupboard in the lab - I think that would affect his analysis of the angle of the dents in the door.

4. On the witness stand, the Col reveals he found another mark on the door this morning before he testified that he hadn't noticed before. Geez - how closely did he actually examine that door before writing his final report?

 

[canny]

Which could suggest he banged up the bathroom with the cricket bat BEFORE he shot through the door. At least I *think* that's where this is headed.

This expert at the end of his testimony has stated in his opinion the bullets holes were already created, and then the bat was used. I think it was bat bullets and more bat.

Why will any man bend and put himself in an uncomfortable and unnatural position to break open any door when he has just moments ago fired four shots through the same door on his stumps with ease?

How will the defense explain away the wrecked plate from the bathtub, will they claim the prosecution tampered with it to implicate OP ?

 

[katydid23]

My brain is addled today. If he got him to say the shots came afterwards, then the bat came before? So 'bat after shots' contradicts that. I need to eat breakfast :smile:

ARRGGHHH. You're right. I said it backwards in my 1st sentence.

 

[Trooper]

apologies for not helping with the transcript, Zwi. busy stuff here..

Where I think the State is going,.. is.. no stump work. didn't use the stumps to bring the fan in, the blinds, the big windows in the bedroom.. didn't run back from the shooting on stumps.. had the stumps on.. followed her to the toilet, shot thru the door to hell, came back, got the cricket bat, went back and banged on the toilet door..dragged her out, and carried her downstairs..

all on the prosthesis.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I just don't know if I can have any confidence in this Col's door testimony.

1. Pieces of the door were lost.

2. Lab conditions didn't replicate position of door in OP's house.

3. The door was leaning against a cupboard in the lab - I think that would affect his analysis of the angle of the dents in the door.

4. On the witness stand, the Col reveals he found another mark on the door this morning before he testified that he hadn't noticed before. Geez - how closely did he actually examine that door before writing his final report?

I think there is every chance this guy's evidence will be disregarded as being incompetent. Such a pity. The door is the only evidence that he was on his stumps. Whilst the shots may also show this, the damage has already been done.

 

[kittychi]

I just don't know if I can have any confidence in this Col's door testimony.

1. Pieces of the door were lost.

2. Lab conditions didn't replicate position of door in OP's house.

3. The door was leaning against a cupboard in the lab - I think that would affect his analysis of the angle of the dents in the door.

4. On the witness stand, the Col reveals he found another mark on the door this morning before he testified that he hadn't noticed before. Geez - how closely did he actually examine that door before writing his final report?

The way evidence has been moved from pillar to post since the shooting, this does not surprise me!

 

[BritsKate]

He did say, too, unless my ears were deceiving me - at least breakage occurred after shots. (Not verbatim.) Reporters seized on the first part - him stating the bat came 2nd - but he did attempt to modify an absolute, in my opinion. It gives Nel room for argument because I think bat, bullets, bat too. (DV history impacts my opinion - I can easily 'see' him using the cricket bat to intimidate Reeva into opening the door/complying with demands.)

MOO

 

[fruity]

I must be the only person who isn't shocked by the two hits by the bat evidence. I had imagined the panels were made of plywood or composite, thus easy to knock out. I have never done it myself and it would be different if the door was solid wood.

If it was knocked out by two hits, it makes it difficult for the 4 bangs to be that of the cricket bat, as Roux insisted.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I must be the only person who isn't shocked by the two hits by the bat evidence. I had imagined the panels were made of plywood or composite, thus easy to knock out. I have never done it myself and it would be different if the door was solid wood.

If it was knocked out by two hits, it makes it difficult for the 4 bangs to be that of the cricket bat, as Roux insisted.

Yep, good observation.